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Message: <blockquote data-quote="HammerMan" data-source="post: 8459698" data-attributes="member: 84112">yeah but my thing is that we kinda make all supernatural things magic (and I guess to make things simple I get that) but we also take things that are pretty normal and put them behind the 'pay wall' of supernatural/magic.I don't know many (I wont say any I am sure someone somewhere did) who want martial characters to summon a wall of fire from nowhere. However Hunters Quarry is just pick a target deal extra damage to them... that can be magic, that can be supernatural, or it can just be normal...I would argue since it is the same as HEX if it need be a spell it should be replaced with hex to use up less space on spells.Another great example is Shield, and Parry (x2 no less). the shield spell creates a field of force that blocks some attacks and uses a reaction. The parry ability some monsters (and defenseive duielst) puts your weapon in the way to block some attacks... shield is +5 DD &parry is +2-+6 (prof). there is a second parry that lets you roll a die add a stat mod and reduce damage by that amount (battle master).  This is  a great example of 3 systems (one magic, two not) that shows martial and magic CAN do the same things.THorn whip is my go to example. a cantrip (so we know doing it at will isn't a problem) deals multi d6's based on level damage out to 30ft and can pull 10ft.    a regular whip is a 1d4+dexorstr mod weapon with reach... If it is not broken for a 7th level druid to make a wisdom attack out to 30ft that deals 2d6 damage and pulls 10ft would it be broken if the fighter or rogue made a whip attack that delt 1d6+dexorstr mod out to 15ft and on a hit pull 5ft?   no way is that busted, it is still lesser in everyway... it is also totally imaginable without magic... but the fighter or rogue can't learn to do this why?</blockquote>

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