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<blockquote data-quote="AtomicPope" data-source="post: 5244112" data-attributes="member: 64790">I've had to teach 4E to Grognards.&nbsp; I'd say it depends on how far their Grognardia has progressed and damaged their ability to enjoy games.&nbsp; The way I taught it to my Grognards is I converted old 1E and 2E modules.&nbsp; They played those modules in the past and 4E is much better at capturing the feel of classic AD&amp;D then 3E ever was.&nbsp; I didn't tell them it was a classic module, they were able to guess that they're playing &quot;Return to the Keep on the Borderlands&quot; as a Supermodule.&nbsp; In classic AD&amp;D you often fought many monsters at a time with an occasional solo combat.&nbsp; &nbsp;I also stressed the basics -&nbsp;1) Simple Rules - Things are straight forward.&nbsp; The attacker rolls the defender has a static defense.&nbsp; It keeps the game from becoming a dice rolling exercise.&nbsp;2) Be Positive - Explain the game in terms of what the players can do.&nbsp; I rarely told them - NO!&nbsp; You can't charge and jump over a table.&nbsp; So jump over a table and stab an orc in the face.&nbsp;3) Classes are Exclusive - Make it a point that classes are something special.&nbsp; I had to keep correcting one &quot;know-it-all&quot; player who would say, &quot;You're just a fighter!&nbsp; They're a dime a dozen.&quot;&nbsp; Uh... Not true.&nbsp; All classes are special and extremely rare.&nbsp; The fighter in your party is probably the only fighter you'll ever meet.&nbsp; And I kept my promise.&nbsp; They only knew their human fighter.&nbsp; (It's a 3E conceit)&nbsp;4) PCs are Special - Make it a point that PCs are not common.&nbsp; They're heroes. They have powers and abilities unlike anyone else in the world.&nbsp; &nbsp;If they're really old school then those four points will remind them of a time when classes and levels mattered.&nbsp; A time when monsters were meant to be slain and NPCs weren't simply PCs that were played by the DM.&nbsp; &nbsp;Almost forgot...&nbsp;5)&nbsp; Keep Combat Quick - Limit their time in combat to 1 minute turns.&nbsp; Read any suggestion on how to fix &quot;4E is slow&quot; and you won't find a single detailed combat timer.&nbsp; Giving players 5 minutes a turn makes combat slow.&nbsp; Inexperienced Grognards often take longer then Noobs.&nbsp; Limit their time to 1 minute and combat flies by.&nbsp; But you should also limit your time.&nbsp; They'll pay attention to the combat instead of wandering off (this happens in a PF game I play a bard in every Tuesday.&nbsp; Tonight infact).&nbsp; Quick combats means players enjoy the game rather than fuss over &quot;how much the game has changed.&quot;&nbsp; &nbsp;Once you've run a few good sessions you'll be all set.&nbsp; My campaign is over and they're already begging for me to build another one.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AtomicPope, post: 5244112, member: 64790"] I've had to teach 4E to Grognards. I'd say it depends on how far their Grognardia has progressed and damaged their ability to enjoy games. The way I taught it to my Grognards is I converted old 1E and 2E modules. They played those modules in the past and 4E is much better at capturing the feel of classic AD&D then 3E ever was. I didn't tell them it was a classic module, they were able to guess that they're playing "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands" as a Supermodule. In classic AD&D you often fought many monsters at a time with an occasional solo combat. I also stressed the basics - 1) Simple Rules - Things are straight forward. The attacker rolls the defender has a static defense. It keeps the game from becoming a dice rolling exercise. 2) Be Positive - Explain the game in terms of what the players can do. I rarely told them - NO! You can't charge and jump over a table. So jump over a table and stab an orc in the face. 3) Classes are Exclusive - Make it a point that classes are something special. I had to keep correcting one "know-it-all" player who would say, "You're just a fighter! They're a dime a dozen." Uh... Not true. All classes are special and extremely rare. The fighter in your party is probably the only fighter you'll ever meet. And I kept my promise. They only knew their human fighter. (It's a 3E conceit) 4) PCs are Special - Make it a point that PCs are not common. They're heroes. They have powers and abilities unlike anyone else in the world. If they're really old school then those four points will remind them of a time when classes and levels mattered. A time when monsters were meant to be slain and NPCs weren't simply PCs that were played by the DM. Almost forgot... 5) Keep Combat Quick - Limit their time in combat to 1 minute turns. Read any suggestion on how to fix "4E is slow" and you won't find a single detailed combat timer. Giving players 5 minutes a turn makes combat slow. Inexperienced Grognards often take longer then Noobs. Limit their time to 1 minute and combat flies by. But you should also limit your time. They'll pay attention to the combat instead of wandering off (this happens in a PF game I play a bard in every Tuesday. Tonight infact). Quick combats means players enjoy the game rather than fuss over "how much the game has changed." Once you've run a few good sessions you'll be all set. My campaign is over and they're already begging for me to build another one. [/QUOTE]

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