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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 9500972" data-attributes="member: 6750235">No, I don't agree.  The player has the option to use whichever seems best at the time.  More options to use a resource is positive.Please note that my argument is to place Lore Bards in the same tier in this aspect as Valor Bards or slightly above.  I'm not arguing that Lore Bards provide the same teamwork benefits as Glamour or Dance Bards.  ;-)They don't need the AC in that context because the target is running away.Which is true for every bard subclass that didn't give that fighter BI.  Every time the Dance Bard uses BI for Tandem Footwork or Inspiring Movement that's also at the cost of giving the fighter BI.  Every time the Glamour Bard uses BI for Mantle of Inspiration or to recharge Beguiling Magic that's also at the cost of giving the fighter BI.It's just opportunity cost.  That happens.  It doesn't mean Cutting Words isn't a useful alternative when a deliberate judgment call is made to use it or that Dance Bards or Glamour Bards or Lore Bards don't also still make judgement calls to use standard BI.Only if BI was given to the wizard in the first place, but the Lore Bard still helps the wizard make that concentration save by either deflecting the attack and avoiding the need to make the save or by lowering the damage and thereby reducing the required DC of the save.It doesn't cut both ways because the Valor Bard is denied that choice in the first place.  The Valor Bard can give BI to the fighter and the wizard in the example, and the wizard can still add AC to avoid an attack; but the wizard cannot reduce damage and adding the damage rarely leads to an earlier kill while Cutting Words can still lower the save DC needed to maintain concentration by lowering the damage.Not if the end result was using Cutting Words less times per day.  Right now Lore Bards can use Cutting Words 0-3 times per day at 3rd level, 0-4 times per day at 4th level (typically), and 0 to innumerable times per day at 5th level because wilderness and town adventures can provide a lot of short rest opportunities.Restricting Cutting Words to 2 or 3 times per day until 9th level and then 4 times per day makes it less useful, IMO, because the opportunity to use it has dropped massively.Far better than not killing an opponent at all because the PC dropped.  Saving an ally from dropping can generate many attacks to kill an enemy sooner.Except BI has to have been given to that PC or other creature in advance.  Bards don't have the BI uses to give out to everyone.With Cutting Words they can get around that restriction by being able to grant it as needed using a reaction.Take a typical 5 person party at 6th level when most of these features are available.The Dance Bard has 3 or 4 uses per short rest depending on ability score focus.  2 of those are going to Tandem Footwork for initiative, which we agree is useful, leaving only 1 or 2 for everything else, including standard BI and Inspiring Movement.  Using them on Inspiring Movement also prevents using them on BI.  How many members of the 5 person party is he realistically granting BI?  It's about 0 to 1 or so.  Even when CHA is eventually 20 having 5 uses with 2 going to Tandem Footwork leaves 3 to split between Inspiring Movement and standard BI.  That's a subclass that isn't handing out a lot of BI dice because of the competition and leaving several party members in a position to not change a failed roll.The Glamour Bard has no significant reason to bump DEX over CHA and probably has 4 uses per short rest.   Glamour gets a free use of Beguiling Magic and might use BI to recharge it once or twice, and use Mantle of Inspiration once or twice.  The Glamour Bard has a bit more leeway in where the BI dice get spent, IMO, than the Dance Bard (who will use it on Tandem Footwork) but again even one use on Beguiling Magic and one use on Mantle of Inspiration leaves 3 party members not covered and 2 party members at 20 CHA.  Each additional use means less BI to go around the party.The Valor Bard just hands out BI dice.  This covers more party members than the Dance Bard or the Glamour bard even if the Valor Bard doesn't prioritize CHA first.This comes to the part I want you to understand where I'm coming from here.  The Lore Bard has no reason not to prioritize CHA.  They can cover the same number of party members as the Dance or Glamour Bards who are also using their other abilities and also have Cutting Words left over to help any other member of the party if needed with the same uses that Dance or Glamour Bards are using on those other uses.  In doing so the Lore Bard is in effect covering more of the party through that reaction mechanic.  They are giving the same BI out to the same party members and using Cutting Words to help party members who didn't get BI if needed.So give the Wizard BI if you think they'll need it and also keep some Cutting Words for other uses.That just depends on the circumstances but given that Dance and Glamour Bards don't have a large number of BI dice to hand out and use their other abilities hopefully the explanation that Lore Bards can use Cutting Words to help someone who didn't get BI; or they can use Cutting Words to also help someone who did gain BI and double down if needed.It could also be as simple as causing an opponent caught in the Druid's Entangle spell to fail the Athletics check to break out, keeping that opponent restrained and the party safe.  Standard BI cannot do something like that at all.By going first, the barbarian makes the same number of attacks as he does going second.  This only matter if either the Barbarian or the opponent is capable of dropping each other in a turn.  Otherwise it doesn't come into play until after one side wears the other down.There's also no guarantee that any PC goes first in initiative.  The bonus brings up the average number of times they might win initiative.At low levels the extra punch might be 3 in an entire adventuring day and the AC bump is good, but those still don't benefit teamwork interaction.  That doesn't happen until 6th level, and my advice wasn't to bump Dance Bards down or elevate Lore Bards up to the same level.  My advice is to bump Lore Bards to the same as or slightly above Valor Bards in your list.Between Mantle of Inspiration and Mantle of Majesty Glamour Bards do offer a lot of interaction on top of regular Bard spells and features.  But I also didn't advice you to drop Glamour Bards down or elevate Lore Bards up to Glamour Bards.  My advice was to bump Lore Bards to the same or slightly above Valor Bards.  ;-)</blockquote>

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