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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9501557" data-attributes="member: 7030563">Except they have disadvantage on attacks already because they are grappled!  You are not causing disadvantage by restraining them, they are already there.+5 to hit 16AC with disadvantge = 25%+5 to hit AC19 with disadvantage = 12%+5 to hit AC21 wirth disadvantge (you used Wizards in your example and most Wizards will be here or better) = 9%What difference.  Being grappled causes disadvantage, and being knocked prone with an AOO by the grappled person cancels it ON YOU.The only person they don't have disadvantage on are the one they are being grappled by and potentially YOU if they knocked you prone with their AOOAnd the guy grappling them could have done the same by hitting with a topple weapon without giving up anything, or anyone in the party could do it with one attack or by throwing a net on them and doing it using less action economy and taking less risks then you are.You are acting like this is something unique you are doing.You can't get into position to do it most of the time either.  A net or Topple might be easier to defeat, but it is also A LOT easier to do .... and those work on enemies without legs.If you are grappled (which we are saying he is for you to do your thing) it lasts until the grapple is broken and then requires half of your movement on top of that.It is only guaranteed if they failed a previous save to be grappled or incapacitated and they within walking distance and you are level 7+, took expertise in slight of hand (which is high price to pay), the creature has legs and you don't have something else to use a bonus action on.  When you get down to it, the only thing guaranteed is that it will not be used very often.You do not need to hit with a net in 2024 rules.  Throwing a net causes a save against being restrained.  It is actually a harder save than Grappling, because a net uses a Dex save where Grappling gives the target a choice of Strength or Dex.  Shoving Prone also is a save.  Either of these can be done with a single attack, which is pretty comparable to a Rogue's bonus action in terms of action economy.  This makes a net cheaper than binding someone since you don't have to grapple or incapacitate them first.  It makes knocking them prone about the same cost if you use shove, or again cheaper if you use a topple weapon.Also while the check may be automatic with a particular build, landing grapple or incapacitated to set it up is not automatic.  The enemy will almost always need to fail a save to be grappled or incapacitated for you to even have a shot at using the rope.  So my Monk PC can give up an attack to try to grapple an enemy ... then if the enemy fails his save you  can come in and make him restrained with a successful SOH check .... or I could just make him restrained in one shot with that same attack by throwing the net in the first place and failing that exact same or more difficult saving throw!How many games have you played in that had a Thief that did this in multiple battles?In a 1-20 campaign you probably pull this off two or three turns.If they fail a saving throw first ... and then if you make your check.Also let's get back to your original claim - that you are imposing disadvantage on the Grappler.  If they are incapacitated they aren't attacking anyway. Grapple does, and a rope has a restriction on the opponent having legs.  Your original example pointed to using this on enemies allies had grappled.</blockquote>

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