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Message: <blockquote data-quote="howandwhy99" data-source="post: 1957351" data-attributes="member: 3192">I agree. If rpg's are really going to allow for a learning experience, I think more postgame debriefing needs to be done. From both sides.  No misgivings whatsoever. In fact, I think it is the absolute best time for a TPK to happen. 1st level means they are still growing into their characters. Players are likely to have only met a handful of sessions so far, so things are still unsure. Players haven't had long to fall in love with their characters either. The whole tone of the campaign is set early. And just like a school teacher needing to take command of her classroom from day one, the DM also needs to present a potentially lethal world with consequences from the start. If your players act like the ones described above, the lesson that even a kobold can kill you is best learned immediately. Then you can use that initial fear and grow on it. I think it is even better to have a group which runs from everything and works to win battles "unfairly", then one willing to run into unknown combat without reason or planning. Overcoming that fear and developing sound tactics I believe is growth. Learning how to become a lean, mean, tough-as-nails party means actual teamwork honed from lengthy experience. This is the "real" part of the game for me. Whether you learn to develop better tactics, work through group problems, or brainstorm solutions in real life or in a game of hypotheticals it comes down to the same thing: progress.  IMO, progress is fun. When realistic, potentially lethal consequences are removed, then the game stops being fun for me.  I am not suggesting setting up 1st level players for a TPK, just setting the lethality level for your campaign before you start and sticking with it. The return to ToEE version 2.5 in the storyhour section is a good example of this (though probably without enough debriefing on what that group could have done when they failed). So yes, 1st level is the perfect time for a TPK.</blockquote>

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