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<blockquote data-quote="azmodean" data-source="post: 2386203" data-attributes="member: 26590">Here's how I'd rule it:Grapple check is required to hold on, but the dragon takes a -20 to grapple due to &quot;grappling without being considered grappled&quot; and another -10 for &quot;resisting a grapple without using limbs&quot;.&nbsp; That is for the initial grapple, on subsequent turns, the dragon can take a standard action to grab an opponent with only the -20 penalty (and drop them with a free action).&nbsp; If the dragon decides to stop flying however, it can negate both penalties and either take it's full bab/5 attacks to rid itself of annoying hangers-on, or grab and drop a single cling-on and resume flying with its remaining move-equivalent action.I might consider allowing an opposed grapple/ride or grapple/climb with similar penalties to the dragon, as well as some penalties to the PC.&nbsp; I might allow an opposed grapple/balance, but at massive penalties to the PC.Concerning trick riding:I think the DC 40 for standing in the saddle is a bit much, I'd place it at 30, still epic obviously.&nbsp; Before you protest, there is a huge difference between doing a well-practiced stunt in a controlled situation and doing something &quot;similar&quot; in a spontaneous fashion.&nbsp; I consider trick riders that can do that sort of thing to be something like expert10, taking 10 due to the action being in a controlled situation and practiced often, and lots of synergy bonuses.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="azmodean, post: 2386203, member: 26590"] Here's how I'd rule it: Grapple check is required to hold on, but the dragon takes a -20 to grapple due to "grappling without being considered grappled" and another -10 for "resisting a grapple without using limbs". That is for the initial grapple, on subsequent turns, the dragon can take a standard action to grab an opponent with only the -20 penalty (and drop them with a free action). If the dragon decides to stop flying however, it can negate both penalties and either take it's full bab/5 attacks to rid itself of annoying hangers-on, or grab and drop a single cling-on and resume flying with its remaining move-equivalent action. I might consider allowing an opposed grapple/ride or grapple/climb with similar penalties to the dragon, as well as some penalties to the PC. I might allow an opposed grapple/balance, but at [b]massive[/b] penalties to the PC. Concerning trick riding: I think the DC 40 for standing in the saddle is a bit much, I'd place it at 30, still epic obviously. Before you protest, there is a [b]huge[/b] difference between doing a well-practiced stunt in a controlled situation and doing something "similar" in a spontaneous fashion. I consider trick riders that can do that sort of thing to be something like expert10, taking 10 due to the action being in a controlled situation and practiced often, and lots of synergy bonuses. [/QUOTE]

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