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Message: <blockquote data-quote="LordEther" data-source="post: 2858590" data-attributes="member: 29298">In a sense, yes, although weapon skills come out a bit cheaper than BAB (as it should be, as they are applicable only in set circumstances, similar to "Flawed" powers and feats in 1E M&M. What I think MoogleEmpMog was referring to in the statement was the fact that characters can buy attack and defense bonuses through Attributes (though not "powers," necessarily, as was described), such as Attack Combat Mastery or Defence Combat Mastery. I think that perhaps MEmpM and I might not agree on the purpose of such a mechanic. Now, ACM is essentially similar to just buying BAB. From a design standpoint, I think it's there not only so that we know how much each point of attack bonus is worth, but also to give certain characters in class-based games who may not have a "good" BAB progression the opportunity to boost it, somewhat (remember, CP at character creation can be used for this kind of thing). There really isn't anything wrong with the concept, in my opinion. I have to respectfully disagree on a couple of MoogleEmpMog's points, here. My understanding of the system is that a combat-focused character in a class-based BESM d20 game gets attack bonuses from class (BAB), skills (Melee Attack, Unarmed Attack, etc.), feats (as any d20), and Attributes (Attack Combat Mastery). In a classless BESM d20 game, such as that the OP seemed interested in, he gets attack bonuses from Attribute (Attack Combat Mastery), feats (as any d20), and skills. That's four or three possible attack bonus sources, by my count, which isn't much more than M&M's two (BAB and feats, such as Attack Focus; 1st edition included an ability score bonus to attacks, which would push it to three). There is no generic Melee Combat skill.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  So, I don't think the BESM attack bonus situation is quite as complicated or convoluted as it may seem based on the above post. I want to start by saying that M&M is, hands down, my favorite d20 incarnation. I love it, and it can do anything I would want. But, really, it isn't any easier to convert other baseline d20 material to or from its system than BESM d20, Arcana Evolved, or any other d20 variant out there. There is the damage dice-to-damage bonus matter to consider (since you've expressed an interest in using the Damage/Toughness save mechanics), as well as the attack/defense issue (By default, not including house rules or those taken from the recently released Mastermind's Manual, M&M2Ed. does not include ability scores into attack or defense bonuses, so, like BESM d20, you'd have to factor that into conversions from other sources) and skill/feat uses and relationships (Green Ronin has done some really wonderful things to make skills more useful, particularly in conjunction with feats like Ritualist, Set-UP, and Taunt, but these things don't always translate well between systems and, more importantly, between genres). I'm not pushing for BESM d20 or GURPS (I like both) or Grim Tales (I want it, and have wanted it for a long time), as again, I personally like M&M better, but I do want to give these systems their fair shakes. M&M's incredibly good, near perfect in my opinion, but I dont' want to give the impression that it works quite as well as a universal system. I don't think it does.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> But check out True20, if you have the time. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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