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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Particle_Man" data-source="post: 2250292" data-attributes="member: 892">On the armour class.  Your DM probably meant he would have to reverse the AC's on his 1st edition AD&D monsters or Basic/Expert monsters, since C&C uses the newer, 3rd edition AC.On the saves: They are ability checks.  You roll a d20, add or subtract the relevant ability modifier, and add your level.  Since this is technically easier than the fort save = constitution mod + class mod, reflex save = dexterity mod + class mod, and will save = wisdom mod + class mod, the only difficulty you are having is unfamiliarity at having 6 saves (not 5 saves, but 6 -- one for each ability).  Now the Dungeon Master (er...Castle Keeper) has a little more work to do:  First, before you roll the d20, the dungeon master (er...castle keeper) must tell you what type of save it is (poison, or illusion, or what have you), then you look at your character sheet (downloadable for free off the troll lord games web site) or ask your DM which of the six ability scores this would be based off.  This will tell you which of your six ability score modifiers you use on your d20 roll.  But that is the DM's job, not yours.  So from a player's point of view, the DM will likely say "You have been poisoned!  Make a constitution save".Second, after you roll the d20, you tell your DM (er...CK) whether or not the relevant ability score is Prime or not.  This affects the DM's (ok, the joke is getting old and I will stop) calculation of your save DC.  However, your primes are set at character creation and never change, so this should not be hard to remember.  A human has 3 primes.  A nonhuman or semihuman or demihuman has 2 primes.  Again, the calculation of the save DC is not your problem as a player.So, let us review:  Your DM says something like "You have been poisoned!  Make a constitution save."  You roll 1d20, add or substract your constitution ability modifier (usually between -3 and +3) and tell your DM the result.  You also tell your Dm whether your constitution is one of your Prime abilities or not.  Then your DM makes a calculation and tells you whether you save or not.[For those who care, from the DM's side the calculation of the DC for "prime" saves is DC = 12 + level of the challenge (this could be "level" of the trap, or level of the spellcaster, or whatever -- note that because the spell saves are tied to spellcaster level instead of spell level, a 12th level wizard has a very high DC to beat even when casting a "puny" 1st level spell).  On the other hand, the calculation of the DC for "non-prime" saves is DC = 18 + level of the challenge].   (Note that in D&D, there is a difference between "good" and "bad" saves for characters -- in C&C this difference between "good" and "bad" saves is more dramatic (except at very high levels in D&D), but one has greater flexibility over what the good saves will be (a fighter must have a strength prime, but could be the "intelligent" fighter, the "dextrous" fighter, etc.)So let us examine the DC 26 "fireball casting wizard".  I do not know what level your character was or what level the BBEG wizard was.  If you are both, say, 8th level, then the DC for the wizard's fireball would be either 12 + 8 = 20, or 18 + 8 = 26 (I am trying to match your example as closely as possible).  So since your character did not have dexterity as a prime, you would roll your d20, add or subtract your dexterity modifier, and add your level.  If this was the BBEG, he might be a few levels higher than your party.  So say you are 6th level.  Say your dex was, what 13?.  Then you would roll d20, add 1 (dex mod), add 6 (level), and try to get 26.  So you would need a natural 19 or 20 (If you were the same level as the wizard, you would need a natural 17-20 to save).  On the other hand, the party 6th level rogue, with dex as a prime, and a higher dex (say 16?), would only need to get DC 20, and could do that on a natural d20 roll of 12 or higher, or if he is an 8th level rogue, a natural roll of 10 or higher.  Does this make magic spells more deadly?  You bet.  Even the minor spells have the same DC as the biggest spells the BBEG wizard will throw at you.  But that is a fact about spellcasters, not about saving throws in general.So let us compare: from the player's point of view you have to roll a d20, add your ability modifier (using the ability your DM tells you to use), add your level, and say whether the ability is prime or non-prime.  Your DM then finds the DC of the save by taking the level of the "challenge" and adding 12 or 18, depending on whether you said prime or not.In D&D you roll a d20, add your ability modifier, add your base save modifier (calculated from a table that is provided with each class).  Your DM then finds the DC of the save (either provided in the book, or perhaps calculated by various means related to the ability score of the monster, spell level of the effect, etc.). ("Advanced" monsters could take some work here)So saving throws in C&C provide less work for the player (since level is easier to calculate than base save, and since you know at character creation what is prime and what is not).  It arguably would provide more work for the DM (since the DM has to know what ability save you must make, and the DM must remember that a "prime" ability has a different save DC than a "non prime" ability), but I think overall complexity is reduced.  For example, the DM only has to remember the spellcaster level, not the level of the various spells cast, when calculating the DC for the save vs. the spellcaster's spells.  That reduces the number of potential save DCs from 10 (one for each possible spell level) to 2 (one for prime, one for non-prime).  This would also make things easier for a pc spellcaster, I would imagine.So as long as you can remember what is prime (and since this is generated at 1st level and doesn't change, it should be easier than remembering your alignment, which is generated at 1st level but is subject to possible change), and so long as you can roll a d20 and modify it with an ability score modifier (like a strength check, intelligence check, etc., in D&D), and your level (surely you can remember your level) you should be able to figure this "Seige engine Saving throw" thing out.Hope that helps.Personally, I favor the C&C system for simplicity (monsters are extremely simple from the DM point of view, which makes them easier to prepare), but feel it could go even further.  But that is just me.  Luckily, it is easy to house rule without breaking the system (another purported plus for C&C).  I do hope that "Monsters and Treasure" comes out before I die of old age, however.Edit: I see akrasia beat me to it.  I should add that I introduced C&C to a group of 9 year olds.  They got the game immediately (they spent a lot of time shopping for equipment, they are experience point glory hounds, they are greedy for treasure and magic items, they have macho competitions over who is the "best" character, the boys once tried to "gang up on the girls" and they saw no conflict in having paladins adventuring with assassins, but they got the rules pretty darn quick).  So either my 9 year olds are very bright, or...  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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