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Message: <blockquote data-quote="bolie" data-source="post: 2040861" data-attributes="member: 8312">I've asked about this on the Troll Lords game site and been assured that monsters won't have attributes.  I've checked out the sample monsters PDF and from what I understand M&T is already finished.  To add attributes and include attribute bonuses would require that every monster be rewritten.  I doubt they'll do that.I don't harp on this because I am just trying to be mean.  I think this is a relatively important issue and could have a big affect on a game.  I believe that this makes it more difficult and more complicated for a DM to modify monsters.  Yes, you can just change the stats, but it's nice to have guidelines.  Also, all monsters make all attribute checks with a bonus equal to their HD vs 12 or 18 (depending on their primes).  An obscenely strong, but clumsy monster with physical primes will have the same chance of making a Dex save as a Str save.  This doesn't feel right to me.In addition, a character who polymorphs (and my wizard right now would love polymorph) has no attributes for monster forms to gain benefits from.  His checks don't change.  You could add the monster form HD but would you add that to checks that are also the character's prime?  In thos cases would you also add the character's level?  If not, what if the monster's HD are less than the character's level?  You could use the greater of the two bonuses, I suppose.  Having monster attributes would render the above questions moot.  You'd use the monster's attribute bonus.From a simplifying 3e standpoint, giving monsters attributes doesn't really hurt you.  It doesn't make the game more complicated.  Default monster stats would still be pre-calculated in the stat block and a DM would have to do no more work to use monsters listed in M&T.And using the attributes from 3e isn't necessarily straightforward since the bonuses vary and monsters aren't the same.For someone asking about C&C, if they only look at the PHB, they won't see this.  M&T isn't out, yet.  As I've asked about this and looked into it, I feel it's important to bring up.I've also said elsewhere that I like having six saving throws (I've always thought having special attribute checks for Dex, Con, and Wis in 3e was silly) in C&C.  If the CK handbook has optional, mondular rules, too, then that would be cool.  But I don't think that an optional modular rule in the CK book will be able to give monsters attributes...I will also state again that I'm having fun playing C&C with Mythmere as my DM.  Even someone who doesn't particularly like the system can have fun playing with the right group.Bolie IV</blockquote>

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