Tell me about Runequest / Glorantha

[howandwhy99]

I like fully fleshed out worlds and ones that are "low-magic" by the terminology of today. I always wanted to learn more about what makes Harn and Glorantha so fun for so many. Any descriptions or details you have would be great! Why do you like it (or don't like it)? What are the best features of the world. Have you modified it?

Also, I have heard Harn is different from Glorantha and that there are different versions depending on printed edition and publisher. If someone could tell me the differences, I'd appreciate it. I am looking to purchase some of the books just to learn more, but I would rather get the best ones for my spending dollar. I'm a patient spender, if they are hard to find.

 

[fusangite]

Runequest was a great game for two reasons. One was the BRP system. The other was Glorantha. Together, they were a great combination.

Glorantha is a world with a true sense of otherness to it. The way that religion and history are handled in the game force both player and GM to actually try and enter the mindset of genuinely different yet compellingly believable alien cultures. That stated, it is not low-magic in the traditional sense; a larger portion of 2E Runequest NPCs can cast spells than in nearly any other world. But very very very few spell do anything other than make you luckier or more proficient at combatting invisible spirits. Magic is ubiquitous but largely invisible.

Other races, similarly, are at once more alien and more three-dimensional than anything you can read regarding a D&D setting. I'm not sure how much detail it's worth going into given the amount of free Glorantha content out there on the web. The history and map of Glorantha are full of amazing places and events and the non-human intelligences are brilliantly made. But what makes the world stick together is the sense on the part of the author that culture and religion are real, meaningful and vibrant things that shape a player-character's experience of the world. But they aren't presented in an academic or dry way -- you're swept right along.

A couple of really cool features I'll just randomly mention: while, like any other game, Runequest lets mortals get more powerful, the realtive power of gods to mortals is much more appropriate than D&D's over-powered mortals and under-powered gods. In one book, just to make their point, the game designers statted the steed of the Red Moon Goddess, the Crimson Bat; he was indescribably powerful. Then they statted the ticks in his fur. One of them could give the party a fair fight. Dragons in Runequest are like this too. Their dreams can kill people. Another feature: there is no 100% agreed-upon history of the world; different groups of people have different histories that contradict eachother. Often the general events are the same but the details are reversed. This is just a continuation of the myths from Godtime, that the different cults fight about. There is a very sociologically credible blending of history and myth in the setting material that I found deeply satisfying.

Harn is okay: dry, over-detailed and a little brittle. But still lightyears ahead of setting materials published since. But I cannot recommend Glorantha highly enough.

However, if you are purchasing Glorantha stuff, buy second edition materials. There's a company, Issaries I believe, that sells reprints. The system isn't as good but that's when the designers really new what they were doing, unlike the third edition when Avalon Hill tried to mainstream it or Hero Wars which is in danger of turning Glorantha into something combining some of the less positive elements of Harn and the games turned out by The Forge.

 

[diaglo]

Columbia Games, the markers of Harn, are still in business.

www.columbiagames.com ... of course, they've gone d02. my hat of which knows no limits.

 

[MonsterMash]

I'm not sure that I can improve much on fusangites explanation of Glorantha, except to say:
My lov of RQ2 know no limit.

other things that are good in Glorantha - elves and dwarves are not standard tolkien issue creatures - elves are plants, dragons are rarely seen and hugely powerful, and of course ducks!

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

IMO Glorantha and Hârn represent opposite ends of game world design. You say you like ‘fully fleshed out worlds an ones that are “low magic” so I’ll assume that its only world information you’re after, not rules stuff.

Glorantha is anything but low magic. It’s a little difficult to describe Glorantha without reference to the two, completely different, rules systems used for the game world RuneQuest and HeroQuest. The magic systems, cults, spirits, religions and all other belief systems are integral to the world. Farmers use spells like ‘bless crops,’ warriors use ‘swordsharp,’ etc. The world is in itself magical. The nine great giant mountains are just that, nine great giants! There are monsters and creatures everywhere and dozens of non-human sentient races.

The whole world is based on the power of myths and mythical events and much of the background can be read in a number of ways. As an example:

The Orlanthi are a proud (and often boastful) race of warrior/farmers. Their culture is vaguely Celtic and/or Saxon. They have been invaded by the evil Lunar Empire, who are intent on the destruction of their culture and who are trying to kill Orlanth, Storm God and king of the Orlanthi Pantheon. The Lunars are the bad guys.

The Lunar Empire are a noble and enlightened (some may say illuminated) race who have discovered the truth in their Chief Goddess, The Red Moon. They struggle to bring enlightenment to impoverished (and in the main ungrateful) Orlanthi barbarians. The Orlanthi are the bad guys.

Add to this some very odd creatures and world views, Elves (living plants) want to recreate the green age, Dwarves (cogs in the great world machine) want to repair the machine, Trolls want darkness, and you get a very rich world.

As an admitted Hârn enthusiast, I’ve got to take exception to the statement “Hârn is okay: dry, over-detailed and a little brittle.” That’s a valid view, and I can see why some folks think that way, but IMO it’s selling the world short.

Hârn itself is an island in (approximately) the location Britain is on earth. A world (Kethiria) map and a map and basic details of the large continent (Lythis) east of Hârn have been published with details of some mainland Kingdoms. But the Island of Hârn is the heart of the game world.

It has more background details than most GM’s need every settlement on the island is mapped, and details of the number of households, and the name of the local Lord, exist. The basic HârnWorld pack contains only general details, but the kingdom modules bring a remarkable (some think ridiculous) level of detail. In my view, it depends on what sort of gamer you are. To take it to the extreme, if you’ve no problems placing a 5,000,000 pop. City in a desert with no other settlements within 50 miles, then Hârn isn’t for you. But if you say, where do they get water & food from? Why are they there? Then Hârn may be for you.

Hârn is low magic, and low monster, most citizens believe if gods and witches, but haven’t seen ‘real’ magic and can’t identify it. But it’s not boring. The island is on a knife edge:

In central Hârn, the king of Kaldor is old and will die soon, he is unmarried, has three illegitimate sons, a chancellor who would like the throne and dozens of nephews and nieces with a valid claim.

In western Hârn the Kingdom of Kanday has a young and scholarly king perceived by his neighbours as weak. The neighbouring Thardic Republic has a general who wants expansion conquest, and an empire. Adjacent to both is the Kingdom of Rethem, haven of the dark churches and subject to much internal strife. Rethem lost a war with Kanday less than a generation ago, and has a disputed border with Tharda.

In the north the native Jarin (celtic types) were invaded by the Ivinians (Vikings) and are suffering a brutal repression. There has already been one failed uprising and the time is ripe for a second.

For more information check out www.Lythia.com for some of the finest fan-written downloads you’ll find anywhere. Also www.columbiagames.com and www.kelestia.com both publish Hârn material. (The reason why there are currently two publishers is too complicated to go into here). You could also check out www.harnforum.com for information, help and advice. They’re a friendly bunch.

GOM

 

[Turjan]

I cannot say much about Hârn, as it's a bit too realistic for my taste . It's a world where combat is deadly, but you have many other opportunities for roleplay, as Hârn is intricately fleshed out.

As GrumpyOldMan already said, Glorantha is the opposite end of the spectrum. Compared with Glorantha, Greyhawk looks pretty mundane. Glorantha's mountain ranges are the dreaming old dragons; you can imagine what happens when they wake up and why it's futile to go for a dragon hunt. There's a pretty good chance that you walk on a dragon .

Glorantha's cultures are very elaborate and believable. The relationships between different cultural and racial groups are very interesting.

The game HeroQuest, which is currently in print, is a rules-light game of epic fantasy, where you ultimately go into the realms of the gods and change history. RuneQuest is the other end of the spectrum and a more traditional approach with a lower power curve. A new edition of RuneQuest will be published next year by Mongoose, using a variant of the traditional RQ/BRP engine.

A few links:

http://www.glorantha.com/ - Everything about the new Glorantha and the game HeroQuest
http://lokarnos.com/ - Lots of info and fan material about Glorantha
http://www.runequest.org/rq.htm - Another RuneQuest page with some more digested info

 

[Glyfair]

I got into Runequest and Glorantha around 1980. A friend game me a copy of RQ2 and Cults of Prax under the condition that I ran Runequest.

What caught my eye immediately was the map of Dragon Pass. The map suggested stories. You could see the effect mythic events had on the world.

Unfortunately, for me, Glorantha has lost that magic. Too much has changed in the world as the fanatic fans have drawn it into a "culturally correct" place. The amateur historians and anthopologists have taken much of the wonder from the setting. It's still mythologically strong, but in a more clinical way, IMO.

I think the ultimate example of how Glorantha has changed was the "Elmal" incidence. Greg was working on mythology and realized that the god Yelmalio (who had a very important temple in Dragon Pass) couldn't possibly be worshipped by the Sartarites. So, "Elmal" was discovered and Gloranthan history was rewritten.

 

[fusangite]

I got into Runequest and Glorantha around 1980. A friend game me a copy of RQ2 and Cults of Prax under the condition that I ran Runequest.

What caught my eye immediately was the map of Dragon Pass. The map suggested stories. You could see the effect mythic events had on the world.

Unfortunately, for me, Glorantha has lost that magic. Too much has changed in the world as the fanatic fans have drawn it into a "culturally correct" place. The amateur historians and anthopologists have taken much of the wonder from the setting. It's still mythologically strong, but in a more clinical way, IMO.

I think the ultimate example of how Glorantha has changed was the "Elmal" incidence. Greg was working on mythology and realized that the god Yelmalio (who had a very important temple in Dragon Pass) couldn't possibly be worshipped by the Sartarites. So, "Elmal" was discovered and Gloranthan history was rewritten.

I agree. That's why I think Issaries is doing such good work in republishing 2E. I have no interest in post-1990 Glorantha for just the reasons you mention. Fortunately, the majority of stuff that has been published about the world is still 2E.

 

[Wombat]

Ah, Glorantha, one of the few pre-made worlds that I enjoyed running.

Heck, I even wrote a cult for it (if you ever find The Cult of Indlas Sommer in Different Worlds ... kinda obscure).

Glorantha, for me, was lovely because it was both very detailed and still had many blanks to fill in. It was also interesting becasue depending on who you played at any given time the "bad guys" could shift -- if you played a Lunar then the Sartarites were wild, ignorant savages; if you played a Sartarite, the Lunars were foul allies of Chaos, etc. And due to the way the various cultures were written up, each of them was equally valid.

The world had a gritty, realistic feel to it, but it also had a lot of humour. On the one hand the game system made one hit, one kill possible even for high level characters. Equally it was important to make allies (someone to watch your back in hostile lands) and bring the right equipment (basic stuff, like water, rope, etc.). But then again you had places like Gimpy's Tavern (in Pavis, run by three guys who had each lost a leg while adventuring), Adventuring Licenses for the Big Rubble, and, of course, DUCKS!

What drew me to Glorantha most of all, however, was its mythology. The gods of Glorantha are a huge, confused jumble of stories that almost all fit together, but not quite, yet the priest will gladly give you explanations for who all of this works anyway. One of my favourite visions of vampires came from the Gloranthan god Vivamort, God of the Undead. Everyone in Glorantha believes in reincarnation. During the Chaos Wars Vivamort, then a very minor individual, was wounded so horridly that even as a hero his life was ebbing away. Fearing that the tales of reincarnation were untrue, he struck a deal with the gods of Chaos -- he would be healed of his wound by sucking the blood of others. In other words, to continue this existence due to his own fears, he would forgo any chance of future existence. Truly a Faustian deal, this.

Another wonderful aspect, and again relating back to both cultures and mythology, was the Trolls. The trolls were not simply strong, but had their own culture, a culture of the night and of darkness that was as valid as that of any of the daylight races. They also suffered under a curse that led to the trollkin -- most births led to runt-sized, cowardly, sickly, feeble little creatures who were only good for food, slavery, or comic relief, instead of full-sized, elegant, strong trolls. Thus trolls become oddly (if simplistically) cultured as well as being tragic figures.

Now as to Harn...

I love the Harnic maps, love them to tears. I like the size of the states and how they are organized. I am bored to tears by their gods, who are far too static and staid for my tastes (besides, in such a realistic world, who would knowingly and actively worship an overtly evil god?), and I think there are way too many barbaric tribes running around the terrain. Still, I have used the maps and the basic societal structure for foru different campaigns using two different systems -- Ars Magica and D20. So my suggestion to most folks is get the maps, use the maps, and if you want to use anything else from the world, go ahead, but don't feel like you are bound to them.

 

[Victrix]

If you're even the slightest bit interested in Glorantha, I can't recommend this game enough

http://www.a-sharp.com/kodp/

You play as a tribal chieftan in the dragon pass, struggling to keep your tribe alive, negotiate and fight with rival tribes, forge a clan, a kingdom, discover the secret of dragon pass, deal with crops, angry farmers, angry warriors, annoyed wives, angry ducks (really), and a dozen dozen stranger and more interesting events

I pull it out every year and play it into the dirt