Tell me about True20 and Buy the Numbers

[Quasqueton]

I'm interested in learning more about True20 and Buy the Numbers. BtN has one review on the review part of ENWorld, and True20 has nothing. Searching the forums gets me a bunch of one line notes. Can you tell me about these two games? Give me something in depth, beyond "it's great." What are some of their rules? How do they work? Have any actual play experience with either?

Thanks.

Quasqueton

 

[Crothian]

It's great!!

Buy the Numbers takes out the normal level progression and makes it point buy. The key is that it uses the same XP system the game already uses. Hit dice, BAB, saves, skill points, feats, class abilities, everything gets assigned an XP value and players just buy things as they want them.

 

[Quasqueton]

By the way, it was Crothian who wrote the only review of BtN. It was a good review, too. Thanks, Crothian.

Quasqueton

 

[Crothian]

If you have more specific questions I'm more then happy to answer them or look them up.

 

[Quasqueton]

Thanks. Well, you mentioned that buying a normal/core character class by the numbers didn't come out exactly even. How far off did the classes come?

What all do you buy by the numbers? I assume you buy hit die type, but how about actual hit dice (hit points)? How out of whack do characters get compared to the Challenge Rating system of the core D&D rules?

I'm also interested in actual play experiences. For both games. I know next to nothing about True20.

Quasqueton

 

[EricNoah]

Do you know anything about Mutants and Masterminds? The "no hit point" mechanic seems to be the same (granted I have only given True 20 a cursory read-through).

 

[Crothian]

Thanks. Well, you mentioned that buying a normal/core character class by the numbers didn't come out exactly even. How far off did the classes come?

The book has the core classes defined at each level and shows what the XP costs are. They have an alternate XP chart since characters start with 1500xp worth of abilities.

20th level Barbarian: 176,125xp
20th level Cleric: 258,988xp

So, it doesn't all work out perfectly but then it's not like the core classes are all that well balanced with their abilities and spell casting abilities anyway.

What all do you buy by the numbers? I assume you buy hit die type, but how about actual hit dice (hit points)? How out of whack do characters get compared to the Challenge Rating system of the core D&D rules?

Correct one buys the hit die and rolls the hit points. Skill points are bought but all skills are the same cost formula so it is like all skills are class skills. Characters can get out of whack. Point buy systems are easier to min max and with the thousands of feats and class abilities it could be easy for a player to really cherry pick all the best. At the same time a player might not realize that their character has all sorts of cool abilities but they haven't keep up their fort save so that kills them.

I'm also interested in actual play experiences.

We played with it for a little while but the players liked the easiness of the class and level system. It can have a bit of math and if I were to do it again I'd come up with a worksheet/cheatsheet so they could keep track of everything they have bought to make it easier.

 

[Vigilance]

True 20 is a greatly streamlined d20 game for fantasy, modern and sci-fi.

It keeps many things that make d20 what it is, including classes, levels and skills, but is greatly streamlined. There are only three classes: Warrior, Expert and Adept. Classes get a set number of skills, but you can choose any class skills for them that you want.

Class abilities become feats, and every class gets 4 feats at 1st level, and one feat every level after that.

Most feats are general, but each class does have a small, specific feat selection all its own, to give the classes some unique flavor. You also get a special ability from the class you take at first level, and this is only available to those who take that class for their first class.

There are also fewer skills, with skills folded in together. Hide and Move Silently become Stealth, Balance and Tumble become Acrobatics and so on.

It also does away with HP, replacing them with the M&M damage save.

Magic is handled as feats, available only to Adepts.

The game also has equipment for fantasy, modern and sci-fi games, and four campaign models.

 

[bento]

I think there were some reviews of True20 on ENWorld, but they disappeared when the Reviews section crashed eariler this year.

Here's some links to reviews on RPGnet:
http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/12/12267.phtml
http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/11/11392.phtml
http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/12/12834.phtml

I also recommend visiting the True20 Forum as there's all sorts of goodies there!

Today I started creating a True20 game for my kids that combines shows like Pokemon, Naruto, Ben 10, and other household favorites. Using the new True20 Companion makes this a snap!