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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jefe Bergenstein" data-source="post: 3089419" data-attributes="member: 31506">Because one trumps another. Why not throw the "unconventional slot" penalty on while you're at it? You seem to be stretching to make WoL useful. I'm taking an interpretation of the rules that makes the most sense.Even if you assume its slotless, you shouldnt add in the 1.5 penalty for an additional property on an item. Putting multiple properties on the same slotless item is a penalty if anything, you dont pay extra on top of that. If I have an ioun stone that grants +2 to strength and intelligence, it shouldnt cost more than 2 ioun stones granting +2 to intelligence and strength respectively. By virtue of being multiple items, the ioun stones are better, since you can split them among party members if needed, and if they become damaged, they are cheaper to repair. Thats why you dont apply the 1.5 penalty on slotless items. An item that can cast bless 3/day would cost 11250 (its suggested that daily limit items be priced as a wand). Multiply that times 1.5 and you get 16,875, approximately the cost it adds to the weapon.  Hence my point. You obviously dont apply the double penalty for being slotless. The intelligence is extra since it lets the item activate powers on its own, and typically raises the DC's of some spells/effects.The 1.5 times cost IS the extra amount.Because the sword +1 of protection +1 (2000 + 1.5 of 2000) has a base price of 5000, while the ring and sword have a base price of 4000? A sword +1 and a slotless item of protection +1 runs 6000. Under your pricing scheme, you'd have someone pay 10,000 for a sword of protection +1 (additional property of 1.5, all multiplied by 2).  Does that make sense? Is it fair? Obviously not. The +1 sword of protection +1 is pretty clearly worse than the +1 sword and slotless item +1, as you can split them up if needed, dont need the weapon in hand to gain its benefits, and repairs are cheaper (sunder anyone?). Thats why you get a discount for it, compared to slotless items, only paying 1.5 instead of double, and certainly not your 1.5 AND double.Well, the 11th level character wouldnt get full benefits from the WoL item either, so I'm not sure what your point there is. Moreover, the greater invisibility gets a 50% discount, as its similar to an existing power. I wouldnt count creature compass as a +1 either, more like a flat gold increase (2000 - 4000 or so).  We obviously arent going to reach a consensus on the exact price, but I think I've made my point more or less clear.</blockquote>

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