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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Thanatos" data-source="post: 3089549" data-attributes="member: 5261">If you read through a book, weigh it for your use and decide that, for whatever reason, its not for you -- thats not being closed minded. How's that go, people in glass houses...I sat down with my players and we did put together multiple legacy items and "applied" them to existing characters to see what the effects were like. Like many other people who wanted to like and use the book, we didn't agree with the mechanics and penalties.We didn't exclaim loudly to the gods either.The assumption that the only thing people are having issues with in regards to this whole book is some intitial psychological shock is bupkis. Making disingenuous generalizations of people who had negative opinions of the book is sad though.I don't know any DM's who read a book of huge magnitude and throw all the material in their game world. They either sit down and have an evaluation session or two or run a test series of modules. That doesn't make our experience with the matieral less factual or valid then you tossing it directly in your game world, so people shouldn't just take someone's opinion just because they put it in their game world.I never said we found the system unplayable. Our experience with messing around with the mechanics was that we found them poorly implemented. We didn't find or like the penalty system, which seems arbitrary and not new or cool. We found it poorly balanced since it penalizes you in so many other areas and with so many other items and skills and some of those penalties are significant with some characters. It was the standard "give you something and take something else away" that D&D typically does when its pretending to give you some huge reward (because there MUST be concequences), which we find tedious and hope its something they eventually move away from. Balance wise though? these items are pretty well balanced in and of themselves.Sorry, I didn't give you the whole range of what we did with it, I didn't think people would start making insults over it. But we weren't shocked, we weren't closed minded about the book, but we certainly were not going to potential screw up our game world by tossing stuff like that in it without looking it over first. I certainly didn't present any of my arguments as fact -- because they are just based on my (and the groups) opnion on what we saw after working with the material.I am sure it works fine for some campaigns -- I even asked about the one it seemly worked in, I'm glad someone was able to make use of them. WoL are going to have much less impact on very optimized characters over ones that are not as optimized as well as work better for some campaign types then others - but yet another reason to put out so many products -- so different people in different groups can make use of them.At the end of the session and our evaluation we found it a poorly implemented and tedious mechanic buried in an otherwise good idea. The book isn't layed out very well either. I wish we could have used the book as is, but everyone pretty much had the same opnion on it and we just took the weapon building portion of the items and applied different mechanics to make it work for our game.If I had it to do over? I wouldn't have bought the book. The value we got from it wasn't worth the price. I'm glad people like the book and can use it with their groups -- its not a crappy product by any means.</blockquote>

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