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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DSC-EricPrice" data-source="post: 2058717" data-attributes="member: 2110">Dont get me wrong, animal growth has some nice effects to it (DR 10/magic and the +4 bonus to saves come to mind) that make it a no brainer if you're going to have some varmints around to cast it on.  When we wrote and playtested <a href="http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=4195&SRC=ENWorld" target="_blank">GotU</a> though we operated under the assumption that a druid could not use his wildshape magic to attain a larger animal form than his own size and THEN make use of the animal growth spell. A human druid changing into a medium-size wolf and then using animal growth might be one thing, but a human changing into a Huge Dire Elephant was bad enough without making it Gargantuan. :|I believe someone else already mentioned that though, "multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack."Where druids seem to get such a bad wrap in OUR games is in their ability to break some deus ex machina situation of the DM. Case in point, I played a druid that used his ability to change into a gargantuan squid to grab hold of his party members and shoot (at lightning speed, have you seen how fast they move) out of the way of a gigantic baddie sneaking in from behind. In one round I changed a lethal ambush into a tactical advantage for the party, much to the DMs chagrin. Ive used it to as others suggest to scout out enemy fortresses and do quick arial recon. You could probably convince me to reduce their skill points OR get rid of the SNA (An ability that we rarely used after the game got so high because of the combat inneffectiveness of the creatures). I would point out any self respecting nature lover should have qualms about using his companions and summons of nature in a clearly consumable way as some have described here. Next you'll be cutting down the trees to build a fort for "the good of the forest".Until we wrote GotU though the AC of the druid seemed woefully inadequate, their spells definitely second rate. Perhaps we simply needed to add more magical items to our game. To those who think SNA is so great, ask yourselves this. Given an ally for the party in combat, which would you RATHER have?A grig (CR 1), unicorn (CR 3) or a pixie (CR 5 with dance ) that you get with a 9th level SNA(ok, ok, admittedly there is the elder elemental at CR 11)or a couatl (CR 10), bebilith (CR 10), or Barbed Devil (CR 11), or a slew of other creatures available with SM 9.</blockquote>

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