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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jdsivyer" data-source="post: 4540869" data-attributes="member: 78336">No LevelsOkay, here's one thing we have toyed with recently. And it was about eleminating BAB and levels...sort of <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />This is what we did:*There is no BAB.* Weapon groups are just like skills - you purchase ranks in them.  Therefore, at 1st level you can buy ranks in Simple Light Melee Weapons, Simple One-Handed Melee Weapons, Simple Two-Handed Melee Weapons, etc.* The rank of your weapon is your Attack Bonus.  So, if you have a Rank of 4 in Simple Two-Handed Weapons and are wielding a Quarterstaff you get +4 attack bonus.* This may sound like a lot at 1st level, but there are limiting rules.* At character creation, your Weapon Rank cannot be higher than your STR bonus (or DEX bonus, if you're using DEX).  If a character has no STR or DEX bonus you can still purchase a Rank of 1.* After adventuring, you can use skill points to increase your rank.  However, to increase your rank, you need to spend skill points equal to the rank you are going to.  If you want your Rank 4 to increase to Rank 5 it costs 5 points.* Your Weapon Rank can never be higher than your STR (or DEX, if you are usingit).  So, if you have a STR of 16 your Weapon Rank cannot be higher than 16.Of course, there are no levels.  After each adventurer (or mission or whatever, hehe) PCs gets X amount of skill points.But what about spellcasters and level?  How does a Wizard cast 5d6 for a fireball, etc?Simple...ish <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/nervous.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":heh:" title="Nervous Laugh    :heh:" data-shortname=":heh:" />Spellcasters purchase each individual spell with Skill Points.  If a Wizard has 10 skill points he can purchase Magic Missile Rank 3 (3 x 1 (spell level as per PHB) = 3).  If a wizard wants to purchase rank 2 Fireball, it costs 6 skill points (2 rank x level 3 as per PHB = 6).Same for sorcerers.  Same for Druids, etc.  You still follow the Spells Per Day chart, etc.  (We're thinking of altering this slightly, but haven't delved that far into it yet...although, during our playtests, it's caused no problems whatsoever.)Does this mean you can purchase a Level 9 spells at Rank 1 at character creation?  No.  At character creation you cannot purchase a spell level (not rank) higher than your INT bonus.  So, a Wizard with an INT bonus of +4 cannot buy a spell that is of a spell level higher than level 4.  Sorcers it is CHA.  Druids it is WIS.  Clerics it is WIS or CHA?  Still thinking about this last one for the Cleric.Does this sound powerful?  Yes...but no.  It opens up a world of possibilities for character creation.  No one wizard will ever be the same.  You may not have as many spells as before (possibly), but you can create a very unique spellcaster.After character creation, the rules change slightly for spellcasters: You can still only purchase spells of a specific spell level if it is equal or higher than your INT bonus.  WHAT!?  You mean I have to have an INT of 28 before I can cast level 9 spells!?Um...yes.  Level 9 spells are powerful.  REALLY powerful.  Your wizard will have to do lots of research, study, etc., to get to those spells.  Magic items that increase INT will be highly sought after.Of course, you still have a to choose a CLASS at first level.  Fighters cannot purchase ranks in spells.  However, if you wish to MULTICLASS, and want to use the skills/feats from another class, it costs a flat 10 Skill Points - after the first adventure, of course.Then again, if you want to do away with classes altogether, you could allow anyone to purchase whatever they wanted, eliminating the need to multiclass entirely.Just a thought... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />But PCs don't get alot of skill points after adventures/at each level.  True.  So this is something for the PCs to strive for.  I would recommend after each successful mission to give PCs 5-10 skill points.  After 3-4 adventurers they will have 20-40 skill points, and can increase various weapons, spells, etc.  It's roughly like going up a level in traditional D&D 3.5.But how do I gain feats and increase ability scores?With skill points.  To increase ability scores you have to pay an amount of skill points equal to the ability score you wish to increase it to.  So, if you want your INT of 18 to become 19 it will cost 19 skill points.To purchase a Feat it costs 5 skill points.  And, of course, you must still meet any pre-requisites.Saving Throws?They are skills, just like weapons, etc.  You get your ability score bonus, but if you wish to improve your Saving Throw, it costs skill points to increase.  If you want your +3 to become +4, it costs 4 skill points.This is the basic version of our "levelless" system for D&D.  We use the same spells, the same skills, etc., but there is no LEVEL for characters and no BAB.Does this all sound harsh?  It probably does, compared to D&D 3.5.  But you know what?  With our little "playtests" it's made the game all that more exciting, all that more interesting.  Of course, we sometimes come across skills or rules that challenge our new little system, but...that's all the fun part...and we work it out when it happens.As I said, this is the basic version of our "levelless" D&D system for 3.5.  If you want a copy of the proper, detailed one, I will be more than happy to cobble together my notes and post it here <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Let the criticism begin! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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