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General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Telling a story vs. railroading
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<blockquote data-quote="rounser" data-source="post: 2959840" data-attributes="member: 1106"><p>If the alternative is linear adventure paths, then yeah, I guess. There exists a possibility to change, though. Apart from reasons of workload and it just plain being easier for designers and DMs alike to railroad the PCs, I think a lot of the way things are as they are is to some extent cultural and traditional. </p><p></p><p>No, you're not a bad DM. I haven't said that anywhere, and if it's implied then it shouldn't be.</p><p></p><p>I'm simply saying that I see the reasons for why most people railroad (including myself), but that the game would probably improve if it was more conducive to allowing player choice. I've stated the reasons for why most people railroad, and I'm not asking anyone to change, but Quasqueton and yourself seem to be taking the idea of "less railroad would probably improve the campaign" to be an affront on your playing style.</p><p></p><p>Heck, the game would be better if we had animated holographic miniatures, too, but that's no affront to using poker chips on a battlemap.</p><p></p><p>I can see a couple of problems with this:</p><p></p><p><strong>a)</strong> D&D parties have no way of knowing the relative toughness of a monster until they're deep into the encounter (i.e. have suffered significant damage).</p><p></p><p><strong>b)</strong> If the monster is tough enough and faster than them, they may not be able to retreat when they've worked that out, calling for either DM fudging or character deaths.</p><p></p><p>You can put on the kiddie gloves by having "hint hint" encounters that PCs can escape from on the edges of a tough area, or have in-game signposts up saying "bad idea, don't go here yet", but how do the NPCs know what the PCs are capable of? How do the PCs tell between "everyone who's gone there has died" and a "you're 12th level now, everyone who went there and died was 6th level or less...have a go". </p><p></p><p>Maybe PCs need a mentor who can say, <em>"Ahem, well yes, I did say the Marshes of Certain Doom would spell certain doom for you a month ago, but you cleared out the Canyon of Easy Pickings, so I think you can handle it now."</em> Seems a touch metagamey, and asks how the NPC <em>knows</em> that the Marshes of Certain Doom are that tough unless he's some kind of Elminster (which brings problems of it's own), but this is a metagamey issue.</p><p></p><p>MMORPGs solve this dilemma by letting you consider a monster, and basically you get told it's CR (or an abstract notion of that relative to your own level). D&D doesn't do this, as far as I'm aware.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="rounser, post: 2959840, member: 1106"] If the alternative is linear adventure paths, then yeah, I guess. There exists a possibility to change, though. Apart from reasons of workload and it just plain being easier for designers and DMs alike to railroad the PCs, I think a lot of the way things are as they are is to some extent cultural and traditional. No, you're not a bad DM. I haven't said that anywhere, and if it's implied then it shouldn't be. I'm simply saying that I see the reasons for why most people railroad (including myself), but that the game would probably improve if it was more conducive to allowing player choice. I've stated the reasons for why most people railroad, and I'm not asking anyone to change, but Quasqueton and yourself seem to be taking the idea of "less railroad would probably improve the campaign" to be an affront on your playing style. Heck, the game would be better if we had animated holographic miniatures, too, but that's no affront to using poker chips on a battlemap. I can see a couple of problems with this: [b]a)[/b] D&D parties have no way of knowing the relative toughness of a monster until they're deep into the encounter (i.e. have suffered significant damage). [b]b)[/b] If the monster is tough enough and faster than them, they may not be able to retreat when they've worked that out, calling for either DM fudging or character deaths. You can put on the kiddie gloves by having "hint hint" encounters that PCs can escape from on the edges of a tough area, or have in-game signposts up saying "bad idea, don't go here yet", but how do the NPCs know what the PCs are capable of? How do the PCs tell between "everyone who's gone there has died" and a "you're 12th level now, everyone who went there and died was 6th level or less...have a go". Maybe PCs need a mentor who can say, [i]"Ahem, well yes, I did say the Marshes of Certain Doom would spell certain doom for you a month ago, but you cleared out the Canyon of Easy Pickings, so I think you can handle it now."[/i] Seems a touch metagamey, and asks how the NPC [i]knows[/i] that the Marshes of Certain Doom are that tough unless he's some kind of Elminster (which brings problems of it's own), but this is a metagamey issue. MMORPGs solve this dilemma by letting you consider a monster, and basically you get told it's CR (or an abstract notion of that relative to your own level). D&D doesn't do this, as far as I'm aware. [/QUOTE]
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