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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 2964085" data-attributes="member: 22779">I think the issue RC, is that you used the word userpation in your poll.  Most people aren't going to vote for the big words.  THe first option sounds very close to what you mean anyway.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />So, Elfdart, it is perfectly acceptable for the DM to strip away a cleric's powers if the DM deems that the player has stepped outside of his alignment.  How is that not leading a player around by the nose?  Sure, the god isn't saying, "Go here, do this" but he is saying, "If you do this, you will suffer!  Don't do it!"Yes, it's an extreme case, but, then again, you're the one saying that there should be NO influence upon the PC's outside of the PC's themselves.  If that's not what you are saying, could you please state what you are saying?Back to the railroad thing.  Let's go back to the example of the PC missing with a 16 when he hit with a 16 the round before.  Now, it's true that this COULD be railroading.  However, there are a number of other explanations:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Dodge feat</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The combat expertise feat</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Contingency spells</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A monster ability which increases his AC every time he is hit</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A curse on the player that the player is not aware of</li> </ul>Now, any of the above is perfectly legitimate.  Particularly dodge and combat expertise.  Assuming of course that the DM isn't playing silly buggers (which WOULD be railroading), the player is 100% wrong in calling railroad.  Unless using the combat expertise feat is somehow railroading, which I think most of us would agree that it isn't.The only person at the table that truly knows if he's railroading or not is the DM.  Shouldn't any definition of railroading center on the DM?As far as charming goes.  Does that mean I can never use vampires in my game?  After all, vampires have a charm gaze attack.  They can charm an entire party fairly easily.  Am I railroading by using a vampire?  Of course not.  So, even the use of charm may not be railroading.In other words, yes, the players may suspect railroading, but only the DM knows for sure since the players are not in possession of all the facts.  Basing the definition solely on the players is ridiculous.  It has no value since the player's perception may be entirely wrong.  Yes, they might think they are being railroaded, but, in fact it is simply the game being played that is reaching a particular conclusion.  Yes, you missed this round with a 16 but hit last round.  Yes, I might be railroading, but, not necessarily.  Until you know either way, it is not fair to the table to scream railroad.</blockquote>

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