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Tempest Cleric seems VERY strong
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<blockquote data-quote="Bardbarian" data-source="post: 7194528" data-attributes="member: 6802784"><p>Not really sure how the majority of this thread became a GWM war but here is my 2cp. GWM has a greater benefit the less damage you deal per attack and the greater number of attacks one has. This is why Crossbow Master builds benefit from it the most at the expense of an additional feat but it si still very worth it. The -5 hit penalty is a greater risk the more damage you do on a single attack. I have yet to see any sane rogue use Sharp Shooter unless they had a means of at least one additional attack. The more damage you do and the fewer attacks one has, the less value the feat has because the damage is an all or nothing proposition. While GWM is a strong feat and I do believe it borders on the realm of broken, I would not remove it from the game. It simply provides a very clear method for a player tho enjoys dealing high damage to achieve that part of their fun. For every GWM fighter out there, I can think of a half dozen other builds which can do comparable damage or trade damage for some other measure of sucess. As a control type player I tend to deal far less damage but in exchange ensure those dealing damage are in the optimal situation to use their abilities. This is how I have fun and the presence of GWM/SS makes my contribution even more impactful. </p><p></p><p>As this is a game with with a human element of adaptability I don't really think it matters what individual damage is, a DM will oftne alter the statistics of an encounter to make it more fun and/or challenging. Ultimately for this reason the GWM/SS debate always falls apart because of table variance. Even playing the same adventure table A might fight BBEG1 alone in his bedroom while table B might encounter BBEG1 with 4 minions and a pet (insert suitable monster here) all waiting in ambush behind a fortified barricade. Thus leading to very different experieenced and accompanying math. The best thing to do is take all the theory work with a grain of salt because D&D is not an enclosed simulation with static variables but rather a bundle of chaos which we try to attribute some semblance of order to. Suffice to say GWM/SS can perhaps best be described as a series of suggestions rather than a hard mathematic formula.</p><p>For example, give a + for each of the following statements that are true and a - for each that is false</p><p>1: You have more than one attack </p><p>2: You have more than 2 attacks</p><p>3: Your average attack does less than 10 damage</p><p>4: you fight many enemies with more than 20 hp</p><p>5: You have advantage more than you do not</p><p>6: your enemies use natural armor rather than equipment</p><p>7: your enemies do not use magic to increase armor class</p><p>etc.</p><p></p><p>Using a series of questions like these (this is not by any means exaustive), one can decide if the feat is going to give them meaningful benefit. Each game might provide a different answer. Running a campaign against a tribe of orc barbarians who regularly grant advantage through reckless attack and wear little armor to offset the advantage GWM/SS would almost be a crime not to take. When Fighting the Hobgoblin empire however who are renowned for their use of heavy armor and shields in a Phalanx formation, it might be foolish to take the same feats.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bardbarian, post: 7194528, member: 6802784"] Not really sure how the majority of this thread became a GWM war but here is my 2cp. GWM has a greater benefit the less damage you deal per attack and the greater number of attacks one has. This is why Crossbow Master builds benefit from it the most at the expense of an additional feat but it si still very worth it. The -5 hit penalty is a greater risk the more damage you do on a single attack. I have yet to see any sane rogue use Sharp Shooter unless they had a means of at least one additional attack. The more damage you do and the fewer attacks one has, the less value the feat has because the damage is an all or nothing proposition. While GWM is a strong feat and I do believe it borders on the realm of broken, I would not remove it from the game. It simply provides a very clear method for a player tho enjoys dealing high damage to achieve that part of their fun. For every GWM fighter out there, I can think of a half dozen other builds which can do comparable damage or trade damage for some other measure of sucess. As a control type player I tend to deal far less damage but in exchange ensure those dealing damage are in the optimal situation to use their abilities. This is how I have fun and the presence of GWM/SS makes my contribution even more impactful. As this is a game with with a human element of adaptability I don't really think it matters what individual damage is, a DM will oftne alter the statistics of an encounter to make it more fun and/or challenging. Ultimately for this reason the GWM/SS debate always falls apart because of table variance. Even playing the same adventure table A might fight BBEG1 alone in his bedroom while table B might encounter BBEG1 with 4 minions and a pet (insert suitable monster here) all waiting in ambush behind a fortified barricade. Thus leading to very different experieenced and accompanying math. The best thing to do is take all the theory work with a grain of salt because D&D is not an enclosed simulation with static variables but rather a bundle of chaos which we try to attribute some semblance of order to. Suffice to say GWM/SS can perhaps best be described as a series of suggestions rather than a hard mathematic formula. For example, give a + for each of the following statements that are true and a - for each that is false 1: You have more than one attack 2: You have more than 2 attacks 3: Your average attack does less than 10 damage 4: you fight many enemies with more than 20 hp 5: You have advantage more than you do not 6: your enemies use natural armor rather than equipment 7: your enemies do not use magic to increase armor class etc. Using a series of questions like these (this is not by any means exaustive), one can decide if the feat is going to give them meaningful benefit. Each game might provide a different answer. Running a campaign against a tribe of orc barbarians who regularly grant advantage through reckless attack and wear little armor to offset the advantage GWM/SS would almost be a crime not to take. When Fighting the Hobgoblin empire however who are renowned for their use of heavy armor and shields in a Phalanx formation, it might be foolish to take the same feats. [/QUOTE]
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