templates to decrease power levels?

[Theo R Cwithin]

Are there any templates that decrease the power level of a creature?

I'm especially interested in things that would apply to incorporeal creatures, but I'd like to see whatever I can get my hands on.
Thanks!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

As I recall, the Living Construct template (SS) reduces the LA of the templated creature.

Powergamers might assert that most templates decrease the power of a creature if mixed with class levels...especially if spellcasting is involved.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

Thanks for the pointer I'll try to track it down (though, if "SS" is "Savage Species", that template doesn't seem to be there!)


And if there are any suggestions out there for low-level (1-4ish) incorporeal monsters besides shadow and allip, i'm all ears!

 

[Alzrius]

Thanks for the pointer I'll try to track it down (though, if "SS" is "Savage Species", that template doesn't seem to be there!)

I believe the Savage Species template in question is Incarnate Construct.

Beyond that, I don't know of too many templates designed to de-power creatures, though there are a few.

Silverthorne Games' Book of Templates Deluxe Edition 3.5 has exactly three templates that decrease a creature's power: the Blighted Thrall (a creature that has failed a trial set by its god), the Degenerate (inbred and corrupted), or Miniature (which is self-explanatory).

There's an epic-level de-powering template in Inner Circle Games' The Complete Book of Denizens, the Bygone Creature, where the creature is basically just a sort of "living echo" of a more powerful creature...but again, it's for epic creatures only (it lowers the CR by -6).

And if there are any suggestions out there for low-level (1-4ish) incorporeal monsters besides shadow and allip, i'm all ears!

The problem with low-level monsters is that at that level, PCs are likely to have no real recourse for attacks that overcome the 50% miss chance. No one will be able to afford ghost touch weapons, and there are very few force-based spells that can be put to use (magic missile being one of the very few).

Having said that, your best bet might be to use the advancement rules in reverse on some more-powerful incorporeal creatures to lower them to the point you want - though you'll have to eyeball their special abilities and see what needs to be lessened, if not removed altogether.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

I believe the Savage Species template in question is Incarnate Construct.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up. Found it!

Beyond that, I don't know of too many templates designed to de-power creatures, though there are a few.

Yes, it's a strange thing to do, and really breaks down when dealing with special abilities: it's easy to add them on, but not so straightforward to remove them.

That said, I'll likely just homebrew some monsters. Being low-level, that's easy enough. The templates will give some guidelines for depowering (and thx for pointing to those other sources-- Book of Templates Deluxe sounds promising.)

The problem with low-level monsters is that at that level, PCs are likely to have no real recourse for attacks that overcome the 50% miss chance. No one will be able to afford ghost touch weapons, and there are very few force-based spells that can be put to use (magic missile being one of the very few).

I've been mulling that over. Likely, I'll just keep damage levels down to very low amounts or minor conditions, equivalent to low level necro spells (eg, 1 ability damage, fatigue, etc); and add a weakness to exploit, something like light sensitivity that would make it easy enough for a party to at least hold the beasties at bay even if they can't be destroyed.

Thanks for the input!

 

[Runestar]

An alternative could be to access the monster's savage progression, then simply take a sub-advanced version.

For example, SS breaks down the shadow into a 10-lv class progression. If you want a cr1 version, you would simply take the first 3 lvs, resulting in a 2-HD variant with 1str damage touch.

Unfortunately, I am not aware of any monster classes for incorporeal undead apart from shadows. You could try the ghost progression for the +1cr version. It's not incorporeality, but at lower lvs, not much different from etherealness.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

An alternative could be to access the monster's savage progression, then simply take a sub-advanced version.

That's a fantastic idea! Good call And with a little tweaking here and there, I think it's possible to djinn up passable low-power versions of other incorporeals.

Thanks!

 

[pawsplay]

The Tome of Horrors has a lesser shadow in it.

 

[freyar]

It's not particularly for incorporeal critters, but the Pathfinder RPG Young Creature template reduces CR by 1 (see partway down this page).

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

@Pawsplay - Good call. There are a handful other low-level incorporeal beasties in ToH that I'd forgotten about, as well: shadow rats and poltergeist. Thx for the reminder!

@Freyar - I hadn't realized PF had made quick templates so easy. I'll definitely be looking at it more closely now. Time to finally get with the PFrogram, I suppose