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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Templating Summoned Monster Feats
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<blockquote data-quote="Kelleris" data-source="post: 2118039" data-attributes="member: 19130"><p>Hmm... This is an interesting idea. Some thoughts:</p><p></p><p>You would definitely need to have an adjustment to the spell level to have the feat apply a powerful template. I think you'd want the feat to basically buy you a bonus CR for the new spell level. For the higher-level summon spells, which generally summon a monster with a CR of the earliest wizard caster level -4, you'd want the feat to bump the modified summon spell up to summoning a monster with a CR equal to the earliest level a wizard can cast it -3.</p><p></p><p>For instance, the half-dragon is a +2 CR template. If you add that to a summon monster spell, it makes the monster's CR average into the earliest wizard caster level -2, assuming no level bump for the metamagic feat. That's a bit too powerful, so you would probably assign a +1 spell level adjustment for the metamagic feat. Of course, this means you want to find templates that have an odd-numbered CR adjustment for optimal powergaming/fairness. (Depends on whether your the DM or the player.) :\ Odd, but it makes the math better.</p><p></p><p>Another way to balance it would be having such a feat, say Summon Half-Dragon Monster, force a percentage chance or caster level check to control the summoned monster. Fail and it attacks randomly or heads straight for you. That would put some of the classic "summoners are really powerful but generally end up eaten by their own goons" flavor back in, which D&D unfortunately tends to lack.</p><p></p><p>Another point is that I would love to use this idea and make a Sudden feat, along with the "summon specific creature" variant. Then, 1/day, when you really need it, you can use that <em>summon monster IX</em> slot to summon something really nasty, almost up to your personal CR. Like, say, the Weaver of Nightmares, a colossal monstrous half-fiend, half-shadow-dragon spider kitted out with <em>legbands of protection +5</em> and an intelligent (and loyal to you) <em>vicious amulet of mighty fanging +5 of venom enhancement</em>.</p><p></p><p>Another thing I've done in the past that you might consider is changing Leadership into a summoning feat. I tried this in a previous game, where a character took the feat (Summon Consort) and used it to summon a character level -2 cohort with his highest-level <em>summon monster</em> slots. That made for some fun RP too, since I got to play around with a relationship with a tiefling rogue (herald for an Abyssal army) native to the Abyss whom I could only attempt to influence in short bursts. The game never lasted long enough for me to make the planned trip to retrieve her from the Lower Planes, though. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kelleris, post: 2118039, member: 19130"] Hmm... This is an interesting idea. Some thoughts: You would definitely need to have an adjustment to the spell level to have the feat apply a powerful template. I think you'd want the feat to basically buy you a bonus CR for the new spell level. For the higher-level summon spells, which generally summon a monster with a CR of the earliest wizard caster level -4, you'd want the feat to bump the modified summon spell up to summoning a monster with a CR equal to the earliest level a wizard can cast it -3. For instance, the half-dragon is a +2 CR template. If you add that to a summon monster spell, it makes the monster's CR average into the earliest wizard caster level -2, assuming no level bump for the metamagic feat. That's a bit too powerful, so you would probably assign a +1 spell level adjustment for the metamagic feat. Of course, this means you want to find templates that have an odd-numbered CR adjustment for optimal powergaming/fairness. (Depends on whether your the DM or the player.) :\ Odd, but it makes the math better. Another way to balance it would be having such a feat, say Summon Half-Dragon Monster, force a percentage chance or caster level check to control the summoned monster. Fail and it attacks randomly or heads straight for you. That would put some of the classic "summoners are really powerful but generally end up eaten by their own goons" flavor back in, which D&D unfortunately tends to lack. Another point is that I would love to use this idea and make a Sudden feat, along with the "summon specific creature" variant. Then, 1/day, when you really need it, you can use that [I]summon monster IX[/I] slot to summon something really nasty, almost up to your personal CR. Like, say, the Weaver of Nightmares, a colossal monstrous half-fiend, half-shadow-dragon spider kitted out with [I]legbands of protection +5[/I] and an intelligent (and loyal to you) [I]vicious amulet of mighty fanging +5 of venom enhancement[/I]. Another thing I've done in the past that you might consider is changing Leadership into a summoning feat. I tried this in a previous game, where a character took the feat (Summon Consort) and used it to summon a character level -2 cohort with his highest-level [I]summon monster[/I] slots. That made for some fun RP too, since I got to play around with a relationship with a tiefling rogue (herald for an Abyssal army) native to the Abyss whom I could only attempt to influence in short bursts. The game never lasted long enough for me to make the planned trip to retrieve her from the Lower Planes, though. :( [/QUOTE]
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