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General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Tension, Threats And Progression In RPGs
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<blockquote data-quote="GMMichael" data-source="post: 7731284" data-attributes="member: 6685730"><p>This, and another comment, have me thinking that some RPGs don't deserve to be called RPGs. Just calling a participant a "player" doesn't make something a game, and if there's no winning or losing, that weakens something's position as a "game" as well.</p><p></p><p>Story losses are fine and dandy, but so subjective that they're almost not worth calling "losses." Some PCs really don't care how many heads roll, and whether they're guilty or innocent. Some PCs are out to make heads roll...</p><p></p><p>If a game is just reduced to "delaying forward progress," I'd say it's more on par with Interactive Fiction or Improv. Are there any formerly-known-as-RPGs branding themselves as things like this yet?</p><p></p><p>Reining myself back in here...an RPG is unequivocally a game if it has stated win and loss conditions, or if there is competition between players. So go ahead and pull player-character death out of the game, but you'll have to fill the gap with another goal or player competition to avoid wandering into improv territory.</p><p></p><p>Wall-of-text protector:[sblock]</p><p>I played a live online game a long time ago that dropped PCs into a dungeon crawl, and anyone surviving until the end won a prize. Clear win/loss conditions there, and I had as much fun watching the game as I did playing it (I dropped in after the beginning). I didn't see any need to remove the threat of harm, because it was what made the game fun. Importantly, players began the game knowing that death was at stake, so there was no backlash when it occurred.</p><p></p><p>When I designed Modos 2, I explicitly removed player death as a game outcome, instead leaving that option up to both the GM and the player. The main reason for taking death out of the rules was inspiration from video games; people play VRPGs knowing that there's a story to pursue, and they will have the opportunity to either complete the story, or come very close to it. But to keep PCs motivated, each character has a goal to pursue written on the character sheet, and the GM has the ultimate authority to raise, lower, or eliminate stakes as desired.[/sblock]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GMMichael, post: 7731284, member: 6685730"] This, and another comment, have me thinking that some RPGs don't deserve to be called RPGs. Just calling a participant a "player" doesn't make something a game, and if there's no winning or losing, that weakens something's position as a "game" as well. Story losses are fine and dandy, but so subjective that they're almost not worth calling "losses." Some PCs really don't care how many heads roll, and whether they're guilty or innocent. Some PCs are out to make heads roll... If a game is just reduced to "delaying forward progress," I'd say it's more on par with Interactive Fiction or Improv. Are there any formerly-known-as-RPGs branding themselves as things like this yet? Reining myself back in here...an RPG is unequivocally a game if it has stated win and loss conditions, or if there is competition between players. So go ahead and pull player-character death out of the game, but you'll have to fill the gap with another goal or player competition to avoid wandering into improv territory. Wall-of-text protector:[sblock] I played a live online game a long time ago that dropped PCs into a dungeon crawl, and anyone surviving until the end won a prize. Clear win/loss conditions there, and I had as much fun watching the game as I did playing it (I dropped in after the beginning). I didn't see any need to remove the threat of harm, because it was what made the game fun. Importantly, players began the game knowing that death was at stake, so there was no backlash when it occurred. When I designed Modos 2, I explicitly removed player death as a game outcome, instead leaving that option up to both the GM and the player. The main reason for taking death out of the rules was inspiration from video games; people play VRPGs knowing that there's a story to pursue, and they will have the opportunity to either complete the story, or come very close to it. But to keep PCs motivated, each character has a goal to pursue written on the character sheet, and the GM has the ultimate authority to raise, lower, or eliminate stakes as desired.[/sblock] [/QUOTE]
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