Test Game Finished.

[takyris]

So I finally ran a few friends through a short fight-heavy d20 Modern game. I was really impressed. It translated really well to real life, and I'm definitely using it in the next big campaign.

Minor points:

1) People who treat it like D&D Modern die REALLY REALLY quickly unless they get rid of those pesky massive damage rolls. I had 10th level combat-optimized characters in serious danger from Strong3/Fast3 ordinaries with assault rifles.

2) I think that they did a good job of toning down both attack bonuses and defenses. The fact that your class bonus to Defense works even when you're flat-footed means that nobody is THAT easy to hit, especially since almost no-one has the dedication to go Strong10/MA10 and get that +20 BAB.

3) Grenades are very very powerful, and I will indeed be using the "totally nerfed" version of tear gas grenades after one character, a Dedicated/Soldier, used tear gas grenades, a gas mask, and a metal baton to take out most of the end bosses all by himself.

4) I really seriously plan to slap Great Fortitude on just about any character I personally plan to play. In a no-FX campaign, it's really easy to blow that DC15 Fort save. I don't think it's TOO EASY, but it is easy.

 

[Spatula]

3) Grenades are very very powerful, and I will indeed be using the "totally nerfed" version of tear gas grenades after one character, a Dedicated/Soldier, used tear gas grenades, a gas mask, and a metal baton to take out most of the end bosses all by himself.

What changes would you make to the tear gas grenade? Lower DC? Shorter duration? Less area?

 

[takyris]

Well, my players were 10th level heroes facing a variety of Fast/Strong and Tough/Strong ordinaries. During the entirety of the game, only ONE bad guy made his DC25 Fort Save against those dang things.

Admittedly, the player had a great concept:

1) Throw grenade
2) Put on Gas Mask
3) Whip out baton, wade into cloud, begin whacking

He was a demolitions geek with little in the way of hand-to-hand combat fu, but he got rid of more bad guys than the Strong/Fast/Gunslinger with the katana, the pistols, and the anime-wannabe complex.

According to the FAQ up above, tear gas grenades were supposed to have a DC of 15, not 25, and sicken the opponent (-2 to just about everything) rather than blinding and stunning them. I don't know if sickening is too weak, but the DC15 is a lot more reasonable, while still high enough to be missable by a d20 Modern character -- their saves just don't get as high as D&D folks.

Old:
DC25
Blinded AND Stunned 2d6 rounds

New:
DC15
Sickened for 1d6 rounds

(I think)

I'd consider somewhere in between. Maybe:

DC15
Blinded and Sickened for 1d6 rounds

or

DC15
Blinded for 2d6 rounds

I don't know enough about tear gas grenades in real life to know which is more realistic, but as they stand in the book, they're a bit over the top...

 

[Spatula]

Yeah, DC 25 definitely seems way too high... And to be stunned for 2d6 rounds... I hadn't noticed just how powerful tear gas grenades were by the book. This all sounds very similar to the tanglefoot bags in the PHB (ranged touch attack, target makes DC 15 reflex save, if the save fails it's a DC 27 Str check to break free, even if the save succeeds the target moves at half speed) - our party used those to great effect before we discovered that they'd been errata'd.

 

[takyris]

Spatu-mon,

Yup -- although I believe I was wrong. The DC is now 15, and save-failers are sickened for 1d6 rounds. Being sickened is like being caught in a Stinking Cloud -- all you can do is one move-action per turn, and that move can ONLY be to leave the area.

Maybe. Or, optionally, I'm full of poo.

In any event, still powerful, but MUCH more reasonable than the 2d6 Stunned deal.

Also, unrelated to the grenades, I found it both easier and harder to construct a good setting. Easier, because I could say, "It's like a Holiday Inn. You know, orange carpets, little alcoves for doors in the hallway, one big alcove that holds an ice dispenser and a vending machine, and so on." Harder, because once the bullets start flying, people are REALLY into having cover, and as a D&D DM, I'm not used to having to make cover a big part of my environments. In D&D, there wouldn't have been any alcoves.

I'm hoping to be able to play d20 Modern without a grid. I'd be fine with occasionally having a printed map for large-area fights that are important, but I'd like to avoid "five, diagonal ten, diagonal twenty, twenty-five, thirty, and one attack" if possible.