NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DeanP" data-source="post: 6836228" data-attributes="member: 6681963">I lurked on the sidelines reading this thread rather surprised that it devolved into what it became. I couldn't keep silent about it. I was psyched that Flamestrike was using White Plume Mountain, I run my campaign in World of Greyhawk  so I was hooked just by the setting. Clearly, he wasn't thinking to much about specific character hooks, the full setting, etc., since this was just an online experiment  with a set purpose, with the expectation that the willing participants, would actually willingly participate. Flamestrike went through the trouble of a nice little back story that created a sense of urgency. I've also seen Iserith's work before, and I've an immense appreciation of his DMing skills.  I've seen what he's designed before, so seeing that he's involved, and getting a sense of Flamestrike's style, I feel pretty comfortable saying these guys are good, even, excellent DMs.Rather than reciprocate, the player actually impeded the very purpose of the experiment he agreed to participate in, which makes wonder why go through all the effort of writing up the characters? Much of the rationale for the behavior,  having it rest on "that's the character" isn't completely credible. The assertion of "oh, my character can just plane shift if this world ends" suggests a character who is largely paper thin. If characters are meant to portray actual personas that exist in the context of the game world, would they be so completely cavalier? Do they lack friends, family, lovers, their life just exists in the vacuum of "I'm a 13th level, what do I care?" Yes, 13th level characters are potent, but power is relative and finite. They will grow old and when their natural life spans come to end, they will die too; just like the 13th levels that came before them. One might also assume they have other connections in the world beyond "the party."I understand playing characters filled with ennui; and enjoyed playing a world weary old elf myself; but not by meta-gaming my way out of actually playing the game or having other players play the game. I mean, it's like kids signing up to play a sport, paying money to play the sport, get the gear and then showing up and saying: okay, how are you going to motivate me to play this game? Cause if your motivation isn't good enough, I'm just gonna sit here on the bench." The fact that they "can't be bothered to write their gold on their character sheet" makes wonder how do they pay for their spell components, food, drink, shelter, materials they need? How do they exist in the context of the setting's economy? Because the common folk who build the houses, work the fields and all that, certainly value gold. Their answer? They're existing in the metagame and not really participating in the actual setting. I suggest taking a peak at the DM's guide regarding downtime for players.  Inflict the players with malnutrition, tell them they're out of spell components, and so on. Decide those with pacts are forced to honor "their side of the bargain." Those with divine powers "receive a message from the gods that must be heeded" And if they flip off the divine messenger, tell them their god ceases to grant them their "awesome 13th level divine powers and spells."  If they want to exist in the metagame, get them back focusing on playing  actual characters in a game world. Player agency shouldn't be acting like they're the stereotypical petulant rich kid, giving the DM a hard time and demanding the DM "entertain him."  Have a little respect for the DM as a person, work with the DM to develop a good motivation to participate in the game, otherwise, why the hell show up to play and make characters if you don't want to participate in a common experience? Help make the story, and make it come to life. In Flamestrike's shoes, I would have had the mage leave, and ask how long do you stay in the tavern, etc.  After five hours of meaningless, world-weary ennui, flippancy and snarkiness, I'd inform the players they're instantaneously snuffed from existence. Nope, they can't cast a spell; can't plane shift, since they were caught by surprise. As we know, the DM determines if the players or their foes are surprised.If you’re surprised, you can’t move or take an action  on your first turn of the combat, and you can’t take a reaction until that turn ends. Dead. By the book. And there's nobody who can bring them back, since they're all dead too. Now let's make up new first levels in a new setting. Don't like it, want to rant about "player agency"? By all means, and feel free to take your ball and go home. Okay, done. I won't post about this again so you guys can launch this thing uninterrupted and I'm longing to see these encounters and just might use them in my own setting! Happy gaming.</blockquote>

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