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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5978779" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Yeah, see the funny thing is there's a paladin and a ranger in the game I'm running now. A few weeks ago I threw a really heavily overleveled encounter at this party, with like 15 at level pirates and a couple of other things. It was pretty classic for this group. The paladin just kept getting pounded and pounded on. She's got like 6 pirates all whaling on her and getting CA and triggering extra damage. OK, so yeah, the character does only modest damage compared to the ranger or the stabby rogue, but still, she's taking hits for the rogue, taking stupid amounts of hits herself, and tying down half the encounter while the ranger and the wizard get to run around at least moderately unimpeded. </p><p></p><p>It is possible to create some dull characters, and not always intentionally. There's always kind of a point where I find that things pretty well gel for the whole party and everyone sorts out exactly how they do their thing in relation to the other PCs. You take a feat or two maybe or switch around a power and I really have yet to find a character in our games that didn't find their place in a fight. Outside of that it is a little more hit and miss, but if the DM is paying a little attention you should be able to engage any PC pretty reliably. </p><p></p><p>Anyway, I think relying on "slog things down to 0 hit points" worked OK in AD&D but it is a bad way to build most 4e encounters. Now and then it can work if the situation is open ended enough, but pretty much every fight begs to be an action movie scene with more interesting elements. Maybe if that aspect is ignored then everyone is left with nothing but 'what the book says my power did' to rely on for some interest. I don't know. I do know I found out rather quickly that 4e definitely wants things driven forward in other ways besides gambling with dice. I'd rather the focus wasn't on all sorts of different power mechanics but more on the action. Just making them all basically 'the same' at some abstract level CAN stop people from worrying about that and let them pay more attention to what's going on.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 5978779, member: 82106"] Yeah, see the funny thing is there's a paladin and a ranger in the game I'm running now. A few weeks ago I threw a really heavily overleveled encounter at this party, with like 15 at level pirates and a couple of other things. It was pretty classic for this group. The paladin just kept getting pounded and pounded on. She's got like 6 pirates all whaling on her and getting CA and triggering extra damage. OK, so yeah, the character does only modest damage compared to the ranger or the stabby rogue, but still, she's taking hits for the rogue, taking stupid amounts of hits herself, and tying down half the encounter while the ranger and the wizard get to run around at least moderately unimpeded. It is possible to create some dull characters, and not always intentionally. There's always kind of a point where I find that things pretty well gel for the whole party and everyone sorts out exactly how they do their thing in relation to the other PCs. You take a feat or two maybe or switch around a power and I really have yet to find a character in our games that didn't find their place in a fight. Outside of that it is a little more hit and miss, but if the DM is paying a little attention you should be able to engage any PC pretty reliably. Anyway, I think relying on "slog things down to 0 hit points" worked OK in AD&D but it is a bad way to build most 4e encounters. Now and then it can work if the situation is open ended enough, but pretty much every fight begs to be an action movie scene with more interesting elements. Maybe if that aspect is ignored then everyone is left with nothing but 'what the book says my power did' to rely on for some interest. I don't know. I do know I found out rather quickly that 4e definitely wants things driven forward in other ways besides gambling with dice. I'd rather the focus wasn't on all sorts of different power mechanics but more on the action. Just making them all basically 'the same' at some abstract level CAN stop people from worrying about that and let them pay more attention to what's going on. [/QUOTE]
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