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<blockquote data-quote="haakon1" data-source="post: 5980698" data-attributes="member: 25619"><p>Etiquette and fork is NOT what the rules say for Knowledge: Nobility and Royalty.</p><p></p><p>I'll quote them to you from d20srd.org</p><p>"Nobility and royalty (lineages, heraldry, family trees, mottoes, personalities)"</p><p></p><p>For etiquette, I think it would subsumed within Diplomacy -- a high result meaning you did a good job of it, a low result meaning you did not.</p><p></p><p>Which fork to use I find it very hard to imagine ever mattering in any D&D game I've ever played or run.</p><p></p><p>As for being a noble, I have no problem with a player stating that's in their character's background and NOT using the Aristocrat class. I'm not going to dictate their Skill Choices either -- if they are oblivious the lineages of their fellow nobles (not 1 point in Knowledge: Nobility), that's fine, just a Rogue with a guttersnipe background can be oblivious to Knowledge: Local if they choose to be -- an unusual enough choice that it probably needs some explanation, but nevertheless a choice that the rules leave to the player.</p><p></p><p>But for your proposed character of someone DEFINED by being a warrior with lots of aristocratic skills, but not wanting to a be paladin, there's actually a class with exactly those "combat abilities as good as a Warrior with lots of aristocratic skills" characteristics -- it's call Aristocrat. My suggestion is, if that's precisely what you want to play, then just play it already.</p><p></p><p>There's a big difference between saying "You must follow these rules for this background" versus "Create your own character, but you might want to consider this class that fits PRECISELY what you say you want your character to be."</p><p></p><p>You could complain that it's not a PC class, but that would be your choice -- sometimes there are good reasons why Aristocrat, Adept, or Expert might fit a player's vision for a character's origins better than first level in an adventuring class.</p><p></p><p>The rules are a lot more flexible than you give them credit for. A Fighter could take Knowledge: Nobility as a cross-class skill. Any class can.</p><p></p><p>The problem you have where you want all your Fighter skill points to go to Swim, but you want to be good at other things, I can't help you with. Since Swim is an Untrained skill, I think it's a complete waste of Skill Points, but again, it's the player's choice. I'd be more interested in Climb and Ride, but that's just me (more dungeon and outdoors, very little ships in my campaigns).</p><p></p><p>Making trade-offs with limited resources -- whether Skill Points or spell slots -- is a key part of the game. You can't be an Olympic swimmer, the world's leading expert on noble lineages, and an excellent hand-to-hand Fighter simultaneously at first level . . . that's a feature, not a bug. You need to either choose what you really want, or do a little of each and settle for not being Michael Phelps and Hillary Clinton simultaneously at 1st level.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="haakon1, post: 5980698, member: 25619"] Etiquette and fork is NOT what the rules say for Knowledge: Nobility and Royalty. I'll quote them to you from d20srd.org "Nobility and royalty (lineages, heraldry, family trees, mottoes, personalities)" For etiquette, I think it would subsumed within Diplomacy -- a high result meaning you did a good job of it, a low result meaning you did not. Which fork to use I find it very hard to imagine ever mattering in any D&D game I've ever played or run. As for being a noble, I have no problem with a player stating that's in their character's background and NOT using the Aristocrat class. I'm not going to dictate their Skill Choices either -- if they are oblivious the lineages of their fellow nobles (not 1 point in Knowledge: Nobility), that's fine, just a Rogue with a guttersnipe background can be oblivious to Knowledge: Local if they choose to be -- an unusual enough choice that it probably needs some explanation, but nevertheless a choice that the rules leave to the player. But for your proposed character of someone DEFINED by being a warrior with lots of aristocratic skills, but not wanting to a be paladin, there's actually a class with exactly those "combat abilities as good as a Warrior with lots of aristocratic skills" characteristics -- it's call Aristocrat. My suggestion is, if that's precisely what you want to play, then just play it already. There's a big difference between saying "You must follow these rules for this background" versus "Create your own character, but you might want to consider this class that fits PRECISELY what you say you want your character to be." You could complain that it's not a PC class, but that would be your choice -- sometimes there are good reasons why Aristocrat, Adept, or Expert might fit a player's vision for a character's origins better than first level in an adventuring class. The rules are a lot more flexible than you give them credit for. A Fighter could take Knowledge: Nobility as a cross-class skill. Any class can. The problem you have where you want all your Fighter skill points to go to Swim, but you want to be good at other things, I can't help you with. Since Swim is an Untrained skill, I think it's a complete waste of Skill Points, but again, it's the player's choice. I'd be more interested in Climb and Ride, but that's just me (more dungeon and outdoors, very little ships in my campaigns). Making trade-offs with limited resources -- whether Skill Points or spell slots -- is a key part of the game. You can't be an Olympic swimmer, the world's leading expert on noble lineages, and an excellent hand-to-hand Fighter simultaneously at first level . . . that's a feature, not a bug. You need to either choose what you really want, or do a little of each and settle for not being Michael Phelps and Hillary Clinton simultaneously at 1st level. [/QUOTE]
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