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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nifft" data-source="post: 3296106" data-attributes="member: 6562">IMHO, a -2 to an ability is about the same as -4; it means you won't have players taking classes that depend on that ability score. But with -4, I worry that anything targeting Charisma (and these are few things, but they do exist) will make them utterly die. As a DM, I dislike being put in the position of knowing that if I use a certain Core monster, a certain PC will fail horribly and die.Your idea of adding penalties to Charisma skills over and above the Charisma penalty itself may be a better idea -- give a -2 to Bluff, Diplomacy and Gather Information; and a +3 to Intimidate. Similarly, you could give them a +3 to Wisdom skills (Spot, Listen, Survival) to give them an "effective" +2 above what their -1 Wisdom penalty inflicts.- - -Drow get a bonus to Int and Cha, right? So perhaps just a Wisdom penalty for the Drow/Orc ("Dork") combination? And LA +1 for Str +2, Dex +2, Wis -2 seems very reasonable, especially if you throw in Superior Darkvision. (IMHO it's best to just pick 60 or 120 ft., but I'm a simple man.) <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />All of the above is, of course, just one penguin's humble opinion.Cheers, -- N</blockquote>