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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Winterthorn" data-source="post: 3734910" data-attributes="member: 1702">Some long thoughts on 4ERegarding the OP: I am one of, I guess a minority now, who isn't wild about 4E at momment. I was angry about Dragon disappearing as a magazine, and surprised at what seems to me the early timing of 4E, but I'm old enough to know that life has it's changes to those familiar things we value and that can certainly "feel" unpleasant... I'm not gainst a 4th Edition coming down the pipe since we all knew that it would come one day - but I find it a year too soon, and "the Devil is in the details" as is sometimes said.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" /> So while I'm leery of all that is 4E, and unpersuaded by all the hype, I'll keep an open mind for now <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> ... Indeed I am curious about what the final outcome will be in summer 2008. The info released so far hasn't made me say "OH WOW!!!" - more like, "Interesting. We'll see for sure once it's in print on the shelf..." I am always looking for good ideas anyways. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />But, I see already some things I do not agree with, such as Mike Mearls' position in Aug 27th/07 Design & Development at Wizards.com. There Mike speaks of more monsters being needed and that in 4E a party of 1st level PCs will be able to deal with over a dozen goblins in a balanced fight!  :\  1st level characters were never, in all my years of D&D, supposed to be able to take on such a large group of opponents - they're 1st level afterall! Hello, Mike?So I see a change happening in the design philosophy on things that were never really a problem for creative DMs in the first place. There seems to be an interest in tightly codifying adventure design and in the process changing how the game plays/feels and therefore as a consequence limiting DMs creativity. I, as DM, use EL and CR as guidelines - not rigorous rules a DM must adhere to. I don't want my hand held and be told what to do about the number of monsters in an encounter - I can certainly figure things out with a bit of practice and my own brains! In 3E we were given all kinds of tools to help us design encounters - including the realistic application of class levels upon humanoid monsters to up the ente and make the game more interesting. Now in 4E 12+ Goblins vs a party of 1st level PCs could be a norm? Well based upon my definition of Goblin, developed from Basic to AD&D to 3rd Ed, this should be always a TPK; 1st level PCs were always too weak for such an encounter. But if the paradigm shifts into mass brawls at 1st level, then I don't see a DM's work being any easier as PCs go up in level - imagine mass brawls at 30th? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek!    :eek:"  data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" />If anything about encounters in 4E that should be changed it is this: no more 13 encounters per level advancement, nor any codifying of any sort of concept on encounters. I've never adhered to this anyways 'cause it never worked. I just need general guidelines, give DMs room to manuver, and I'll take care of the rest regarding challenging players and awarding XPs.Well maybe Mike et al will be toying with us on all this just to see what the reaction is - nothing is set in stone yet <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> It's still early enough for people to speak up about what they like. It beats just accepting on speculations.@Mike M, if you're "listening": as an RPG referee I want rules to be mature enough to actually respect my discretionary powers as a DM; my capacity for making judgement calls and my ability invoke my creativity. I want to see this in D&D - as it always was. Please do not give-in to a philosophy of codifying everything that a DM does. That'll be a real turn-off for me. Good luck with it all! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Again, folks, I am open, but unconvinced. Curious, but not excited. Cautious. And I will not be silent on what's good or bad.One thing I am encouraged by is the WotC plan for a 4E SRD. Smart move! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" />Oh, yeah, ENWorld is good. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></blockquote>

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