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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Firstborn" data-source="post: 656161" data-attributes="member: 9767">I am quite capable of making a PC that is effective.  What I don't do is build characters that are intended to take advantage of every rule possible in order to insure that I can take down any creature thrown at me in a round or two.  If I did the game would become incredibly boring.  This is just my opinion.  You are correct in the fact that it was a ploy and not a very well hidden ploy for that matter.  It was intended to try to bring the topic under control because it seemed to me that it was out of hand.By the way, I don't think that a fighter that starts off with 20 str is average even if he is a half-orc.  When you stop to remember that the average orc only has a 15 str (at least from what I remember it was 15) it would seem that 20 str is a bit too much.  Maybe if all the orcs had 22 str or something then 20 wouldn't sound so bad for an average half-orc character.  Maybe if the PC's ran into a band of 10th level orc barbarians all with 22 str and 20 constitution weilding +5 greataxes things might be a little fair in these campaigns.  But from where I am standing it just all seems a little too lopsided.I'm just trying to understand the comparison between the wizard and fighter damage.  Thanks for hanging me by my feet and flaying me alive.</blockquote>