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Message: <blockquote data-quote="SimonMoon5" data-source="post: 658729" data-attributes="member: 5821">I didn't say "wizards suck". I said wizards can't keep up with the damage that fighters do.  This was meant to imply, as others picked up on, that this makes wizards pick only "save or die" spells, which is somewhat bland.For the 120 to 150 points of damage, my personal experience has been with an archer character who is both a Deepwoods Sniper and an Order of the Initiate of the Bow. "Core Rules Only" fanatics might not accept that as valid, but he does way more damage than my Incantatrix ever could. And that's with "Old Haste". In another game I'm in, a player has a half-orc barbarian. How much damage could he do at 14th level?  He started with a 20 STR, so by 14th level, he should add +3 to it from level advancement. He already (at 11th level) has a +4 STR item, so let him keep that, for a 27 STR when not raging. When raging, that's a 31. With a greatsword, used two-handed of course, assuming a +4 (with greater magic weapon), that's a base damage of d10+10(str)+5 (half again str) +4(weapon) for d10+19, an average of 24.5. If his three attacks hit, that's 73.5 points of damage. And that's without min-maxing really.Give him a weapon which is a base +1 flaming shocking frost weapon (with GMW later cast on top of that), that will add another 3d6 (average 10.5) damage per hit, adding 31.5 per round, for a total of 105 points of damage per round.Hmm, so now I need to justify another 15 points of damage, huh?If I say "power attack for 5, for three attacks" that would do it, but then someone would counter that his other attacks might not hit. Let's see... what else can I add to him...Oh, yeah, instead of a 14th level barbarian, make him a 10th level barbarian/4th level fighter so he can pick up weapon specialization, for an extra 2 points per attack, making his total damage for the round 111. Hmmm. Nine points to go. Well, let him improve his str enhancing item from +4 to +6. That will make his raging str a 33, and will make his damage from str go from +10+5 to +11+5, an increase of only +1 point per hit, for a total of 114 points of damage per round.Six points of damage left to justify. He crits on a 19 with the greatsword. Give him improved crit so that he crits on a 17. That will approximately double his damage (except for the flaming frost shock part) about 20% of the time. So all the 114 (except for 31.5) is doubled about 20% of the time. So, let's add 20% of this 82.5 points of damage...That adds 16.5 points of damage.So, that makes his total damage per round an average of 130.5. No splatbooks, no non-core rules. How's that?</blockquote>

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