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Message: <blockquote data-quote="neroden" data-source="post: 678858" data-attributes="member: 6063">While Haste may have been too powerful, it was always a tough question whether to take it or Fireball, so from my point of view it was perfectly balanced at third level.  At fourth or even fifth level I'd still take it sometimes.  Hopefully if they've turned Haste into "Extra Attack" they've put "Real Haste" in at a higher level.'Extra attack' gives no flavor.  'Extra attack plus increased speed' is better, but still eliminates my favorite (and I believe utterly balanced) use of haste: performing a standard action, a move, and a move-equivalent action.  (Move, drink potion, cast.  Cast, open door, go though it.  Move, cast, move.)I'd be reasonably happy with "Haste grants an extra attack or move-equivalent action", although I don't see what was so broken about being able to cast two spells in one round.  (As opposed to high level fighters who can make oodles of attacks per round already.)  Spellcasters are still limited by spells per day.Changing Haste to make Quicken Spell more desirable is a *really* dumb change, given that several of the designers already agreed that the metamagic feats were misdesigned (because they impose a double cost).  Changing the working part to support the broken part is never a good idea.(Of course, if they made Quicken Spell so it didn't up the spell level at all -- or better yet, so that you also didn't have to pick which spells to quicken in advance -- then it might be a reasonable alternative to Haste; as it is it's better as a 'supplement' to Haste for those who want to cast three spells per round.)</blockquote>

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