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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sinjin the Rogue" data-source="post: 699465" data-attributes="member: 2288">Hasty decisionI am in the camp that does not believe that haste needs to be changed. Interestingly, I read the first few pages of the post, where a number of people chided those who don't like the change coming in 3.5, by telling them that the DM does not have to accept the change and could house rule it to keep haste the way it was. Could the same argument no also be made for those who don't like the current version? Can't your DM house rule it if he does not like haste in its current form? I would say the answer to that question is yes, and therefore, no need exists to change the spell in the first place.Granted, haste is powerful. Most spell casters will take it as soon as it becomes available, but they don't always use it on themselves. Haste is certainly a lower level spell that remains useful to a caster throughout his career, while many other lower level spells lose their usefullness. However, IMHO, haste provides a wizard with some crucial protections that are needed at mid to higher levels. Let me explain:I currently play a 14th level wizard. The campaign in which I play is not a Monty Haul campaign. The treasure that our group has collected from our adventures (the core WoTC modules) is adequate, but it does not offer the chance for any of us to load up on magic items, protective gear etc. At this point, my wizard has an AC of 21. (Bracers of armor +3, Gauntlets of dexterity +4 (AC bonus of +2 when not flat footed), Amulet of Natural armor +2, and a ring of protection +2. The shield spell grants a +7 AC to 50% of the battlefield, but the opportunities to perpare for combat in advance are usually rare. However, my AC with shield becomes 28. I could cast mage armor to gain a 29. Haste adds +4 to the AC for a total of 33. That is a very nice AC! However, take away the +4 haste bonus, and my AC is back to 29. The opponents we face typically have attack modifiers in the mid to upper 20's. So, even with a 29 AC, my wizard faces the very real possibility of suffering life threatening wounds on the battlefield, and because wizards get so few hit points, he certainly can't last long when creatures are capable of doling out 40 to 50 hp's worth of damage in a round. You may argue that the wizard should not be engaging in combat, and that is certainly true, but at mid to higher levels, almost every NPC of some intelligence that we face always goes after the wizard first. It's very difficult to cast spells when you are stunned, grappled and pummeled to within an inch of your life. You may argue that the wizard should take the "Still-Spell" feat to counter the effect of grappling, but that would force a wizard to take a feat that he might not normally want to have to take. It would also require the wizard to apply the feat to a significant number of the spells on his daily allotment, thus increasing the spell level by one for each of them. That is a high price to pay. And, it does nothing to stave off the effects of a monk's stun. True, these are the hazards of the game, but as I said, when the wizard is the primary target of every enemy, the odds favor death for the wizard more than anyone else. Then of course, there is spell resistance. Most creatures don't have it, but those who do have such a high resistance that even with greater spell penetration, it is difficult to effect a creature with SR. Most creatures with SR usually have immunity of resistances to certain types of energies. In addition, they are usually higher level creatures with similarly high saving throws. Once a wizard gets into the higher levels, he can be sure that he is going to be facing creatures with SR in the 30's. a 15th level wizard with greater spell penetration has a 50/50 chance of even affecting a creature with that kind of SR. On top of that, the spell may not work because the creature may be immune to the type of energy the spell uses. If that does not happen, the creature usually gets a saving throw, so more often than not, the spell will fail or its effects will be significantly reduced.Haste gives the wizard more chances to make a spell stick, but the ability itself is not free. A hasted wizard goes through many more spells, and can soon find himself out of spells or at least out of spells that might have any use in a particular encounter. Haste also lasts for only 1 round per level, so it's usually gone after a single encounter. So, I don't think it is broken at all. It gives a wizard a much needed boost for a single combat encounter per day (per memorized haste) A wizard has to be judicious in choosing the right encounter in which to use it.Of course, DM's may still not want the current version in their campaigns. No worries. As D&D players, the first rule of thumb should be that the DM has the final say in his campaign. I am both a player and a DM, and so I fully support my DM, (who has decided that when the new version is posted, any new campaigns we start will use the new version) and the decisions he makes for his campaign. I will say that I would be much more accepting of the change from WoTC, if they decided to change the feat "Quicken Spell" to a +1 spell level penalty rather than a +4 penalty. I think they should also grant wizards and sorcerers 2 extra metamagic feats for free at first level, or give bonus feats every 2 levels like they do for fighters. This would allow arcane casters a lot more flexibility in their feat selection, or compensate them for having to be forced to take specific feats in order to survive.</blockquote>

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