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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dannager" data-source="post: 6182079" data-attributes="member: 73683">Now, see, that's a fallacy. ("One part of his post was an ad hominem argument, therefore the validity of all of his arguments is in doubt.")I don't think you understand what I'm doing. I'm not trying to convince anyone that Mike or Jerry or Khoo or whomever is "right" (that's a fool's errand, and not even particularly interesting), I'm highlighting the fact that this issue is kept afloat and magnified by a group of people who are, at the heart of it, disingenuously manipulating their audience in order to provoke an incensed reaction.I'm not attacking them for their formally fallacious argumentation. I'm pointing out that they are deliberately mischaracterizing or misrepresenting what happened (or outright lying, in some cases) in order to provoke a reaction from an audience predisposed to be vulnerable to that sort of manipulation.I'm not going to go back and forth with you on this. You're hunting for something that doesn't exist and trying to paint me as guilty of the same things I'm criticizing others for, without bothering to stop and understand exactly what it is I'm criticizing. Come on, Umbran.Out of curiosity, Umbran, do you believe that it was "jerkish" of him to explain that he thought pulling the shirts was a mistake? If so, why? Do you understand why he said what he said? Or have you come to your own conclusion because it fits your mental conception of the guy, ignoring his own explanation?On the contrary, I have seen no less than three lengthy posts of theirs on the matter (and I may even be forgetting one or two), all three of which struck me as particularly thoughtful. In fact, I'd wager they've given this a metric ton of thought over the past few years. It's almost ridiculous to think otherwise, given how embroiled and embattled they have been in this.</blockquote>

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