Thayan Enclave population breakdown

[jester47]

I have recently started a campaign in the Forgotten Realms and I have set about making a Red Wizard Enclave of Scornubel. However, I am having trouble determining how many Red Wizards, Thayan Knights, and other folks there are in an enclave. I know the Enclave is 1% of the population of the host city but how does one do the breakdown? I looked at the methods used in the DMG for determining the numbers of different types of people in cities but this does not seem to mesh well with the higher levels of wizards in the enclave.

For example the scornubel enclave is about 145 people. In the DMG this is a Hamlet. The highest possible level of wizard in a hamlet is 2. So that won't work.

Do you use the city size? If so then the max level is 13 and so in that case there would be 127 wizards in the enclave. Average being 11.5 or 11 then you get 63 wizards, which is about half, as Lords of Darkness or FRCS suggests. I would supose that there was somthing similar to this for the Thayan Knights.

Is there a better way?

 

[StalkingBlue]

Hmm.

A sample Thayan enclave is detailed in the FRCS, in the adventure near the end of the book. I've used that as a starting point for my own enclaves, adding a plausible number of commoners (slaves).

The DMG rules for towns don't really work here. Enclaves are basically company premises, not towns. It's a personnel breakdown you are looking for, not a population breakdown.

 

[jester47]

Interesting. Still, I wonder what the method to the madness was in figureing out the numbers for the Proskur enclave (from Lords of Darkness) was. I will have to reverse engineer it I guess.

Aaron.

 

[Xarlen]

Where's the info on Thayan Knights?

 

[Mr Fidgit]

Is there a better way? [/B]

i think the best way will be whatever you feel most comfortable with and/or whatever fits best with your campaign.

if you want to create an enclave, you could do it like this:

Scornubel (pop. 14,574), is a sprawling (non walled) tent city. its north shore, on the River Chionthar, houses the merchant district.

Placement: the enclave can be placed anywhere in the vicinity of the city. people will travel to it in order to aquire magical goods, so a location near the north shore is unnecessary.

the population of the enclave is 145 people, half of which (73) are guards, servants, assistants, mundane artisans and other support staff (FRCS pg 279). the remaining 72 people are Red Wizards (or in this case, let's say 'spellcasters' to include a few clerics).

breakdown: with the inclusion of clerics and cleric artificers (to create items wizards can't, like cure light potions), we can make them one-third of the spellcasting population, 24. the clerics per level could look like this:1 8th, 3 4th, 6 2nd, 14 1st.

the remaining 48 wizards may look like this: 1 11th, 2 9th, 4 7th, 6 5th, 11 3rd, 24 1st.

if you wanted the spellcasters in the enclave to be wizards only, the breakdown could look like this: one 11th level wizard, 3 9th, 5 7th, 9 5th, 18 3rd, 36 1st.

(as you can see, i didn't use the DMG guidelines for populating cities, i just tryed to make the numbers fit...)

 

[jester47]

Xarlen: The info on the Thayan Knights is in Lords of Darkness. VERY cool prestige class BTW.

Mr. Fidgit: Thats a pretty good outline. However some points:

I like to make my campaigns very status quo. That is regardless of you level if you decide to go to the Forest of Wyrms, be prepared to encounter a dragon... So the enclave of scornubel will not be adjusted to "fit my campaign" as my campaign and those of the other DMs in my group are clearly status quo.

Also, Scornubel is not a tent city at least as it is presented in the books...

Here is the rundown of the proskur enclave:

41 actual wizards (four bonified red wizards)
15 clerics
5 Thayan Knights
36 guards
6 are temple guards

thats 103 leaving 38 commoners and experts.

Here is the rundown of the small enclave in the FRCS:

10 guards
10 wizards
1 red wizard

What the numbers say:

So from these numbers we can see that 10% of thewizard population are real red wizards.

There is a 1-1 ratio of guards to wizards. (if you include thayan knights in the proskur example)

There is one cleric for every ten people. The clerics get 1 guard for every two clerics.

There is a near 1-1 ratio of thayan knights to each cleric guard.

Aaron.

 

[Mr Fidgit]

Scornubel is not a tent city at least as it is presented in the books...

are you sure? i must be getting my FR cities mixed up.

anyway, i run FR, and my attitude about the Realms is that i'll take all the information i have (and that's alot, mostly 1e and 2e materials) and use it to set up a game. once the game starts, it's my world, to do with as i please. i don't mind doing this because the Realms timeline is constantly moving forward. people, places and situations change (and not just with each new edition of D&D ).

btw, in my example i used the term 'Red Wizards' to describe any caster who work for that organization. (it looks like you use it to mean: someone with the Red Wizard PrC.)

 

[jester47]

Lookingat SKR's web page there were supposed to be 70 some odd wizards in the enclave, but it got dropped to 41 in the final cut. Interesting.

It looks like I am going to have to make a system of my own for this.

yeah, I am actually using the FRCS distinction between a wizard from thay and a true red wizard.

It seems the clerics, knights and wizards should all be in the "Wizards" count (i.e. half the population of the enclave) and the normal guards and everyone else is in the rest.

Aaron.