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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Friend of the Dork" data-source="post: 5386337" data-attributes="member: 91954">Yes, well builds are nice and whatnot but I like to see builds that works across the levels and not just level 10 or 20. A major disadvantage two any TWF builds is that they require alot of feats to work well, while the more traditional builds are less "costly" but are of course improved by feats as well. Actually, in PF Cleave now only requires a hit with the first attack (thus power attack is not preferred as hitting is more important). Power attack would be reserved against high-hp enemies with not too high AC. The drawback is that Cleave is single attack only, thus not that useful after 6th level and up (Great Cleave is probably a better option then). Ah ok then it makes sense. Also, I just realized the OP wanted 25 point-buy, which is Epic Fantasy scores and generally favors MAD characters. Since Str directly affects to hit, the Str-based fighter can afford an 18 in str at first level (or 16 before racial adjustment). Dex 14 is nice but not required, 12 is enough for most purposes. Let's say with Power Attack, Cleave and Weapon Focus Greatsword that's +6 2d6+6 (average 13 damage), or +5 2d6+9 with Power Attack (average 16), enough to one-shot most opponents at first level. AC is going to be low though, especially when Cleaving, but if you wanted AC sword'n board is better anyway. With my example, a single hit with greatsword without power attack deals more damage than both attacks hitting with TFW at first level. Not yes you could concievably start with 18 dex as well, but IMO str is more important to a dex fighter than dex is to a str fighter. The main advantage here is that with one weapon (greatsword) you can do as much damage as two shortswords, more because of higher strength and not halving str bonus for secondary attack. Of course Fighters are (and should be) the best to fight at first level hands down. But a Rogue need not have bad to hit, and can make do without a str bonus since he can get sneak attack. In my experience the 20 dex 10 str rogue both hit and damaged more than the paladin in my group. Being human he could start with both TWF and Weapon Finesse at first level. Loss of bab is of course significant, but a high stat and "dumping" str makes up for some of it. Not to mention the Rogue's other abilities and skills...Hmm I will see if I can make a decent str-based fighter with the same guidelines: I will make a new post for it.</blockquote>

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