Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The 4E Players Handbook: good...bad...ugly..
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Greg K" data-source="post: 4452858" data-attributes="member: 5038"><p>The Good:</p><p>- Removing most of the non-biological aspects of race and making them feats.</p><p>- Unified Save Progression</p><p>- multiclassing: I actually like that multiclassing is more like dabbling. I dislike how in 3e you can just multiclass and grab a whole bunch of abilities without long periods of downtime and a trainer.</p><p>- no more XP costs for various things</p><p></p><p></p><p>The Bad:</p><p>- Action Points, Healing Surge (and see ugly +1/2 character level bonus): I like having action points and a way to recover hit points without magic so their inclusion is good. However, I don't like the mechanics which I consider ugly and prefer the approach of Mutants and Masterminds Hero Points which allows extra actions, healing surges, rerolls with a bonus and more.</p><p></p><p>- Rituals: I prefer UA Incantations. </p><p>- Magic: The magic system. I'm not a fan of Vancian, but I do not consider the new rules any better. Per encounter just introduces its own share of "wtf?"</p><p></p><p>The Ugly</p><p>- +1/2 character level bonus (except in the case of the unified saving throw).</p><p>- no Star Wars condition track</p><p>- negative hit points expanded (I wish they had done away with it)</p><p>- hit point recovery</p><p>- per encounter abilities</p><p>- many of the cleric, paladin and warlock abilties</p><p>- the skill system</p><p>- Milestones</p><p>- How Daily Items work</p><p>- Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies (note: I generally wasn't a fan of most 3e PrCs which I felt should have been their own class variants or handled as a new base class, but at least my character could enter them much sooner).</p><p>- I still have no interest in playing DND above 10th level or so</p><p>- anything else that I forgot to mention.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Greg K, post: 4452858, member: 5038"] The Good: - Removing most of the non-biological aspects of race and making them feats. - Unified Save Progression - multiclassing: I actually like that multiclassing is more like dabbling. I dislike how in 3e you can just multiclass and grab a whole bunch of abilities without long periods of downtime and a trainer. - no more XP costs for various things The Bad: - Action Points, Healing Surge (and see ugly +1/2 character level bonus): I like having action points and a way to recover hit points without magic so their inclusion is good. However, I don't like the mechanics which I consider ugly and prefer the approach of Mutants and Masterminds Hero Points which allows extra actions, healing surges, rerolls with a bonus and more. - Rituals: I prefer UA Incantations. - Magic: The magic system. I'm not a fan of Vancian, but I do not consider the new rules any better. Per encounter just introduces its own share of "wtf?" The Ugly - +1/2 character level bonus (except in the case of the unified saving throw). - no Star Wars condition track - negative hit points expanded (I wish they had done away with it) - hit point recovery - per encounter abilities - many of the cleric, paladin and warlock abilties - the skill system - Milestones - How Daily Items work - Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies (note: I generally wasn't a fan of most 3e PrCs which I felt should have been their own class variants or handled as a new base class, but at least my character could enter them much sooner). - I still have no interest in playing DND above 10th level or so - anything else that I forgot to mention. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The 4E Players Handbook: good...bad...ugly..
Top