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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gus L" data-source="post: 9489283" data-attributes="member: 7045072">I agree with this but I suspect the issue goes a bit deeper.  5E obviously retains many elements that aren't part of the dominant 5E playstyle these days. Instead they are dragged along from older editions like toilet paper stuck to the bottom of a shoe. They don't help the game as it is played, but there they sit in the rules - bloating them.  I suspect though that were they removed a part of the older fanbase would be livid.D&D has to have saving throws, it has to have AC and HP, Vancian casting and all the standard classes - but it also has to have morale and torches and such even if those don't actually come up in modern play.  This I'm less sure about - remember 5E was designed seeking input from various consultants and tried very hard to get the OSR and some other game communities on board.  In development it was billed as a return to less combat and build focused play. I think it just didn't play out that way... The new "OC" play style seems largely derived from streamed play and a development of post 80's "trad" design with it's heavy storyline and character focus hybridized with grid combat. It may not be what this older player likes, but to the degree that it's a rejection of older styles it strikes me as the organic development of the system ... WotC is just trying to ride the tiger.Plenty of olds seem to like it, just as there are a lot of younger folk wanting to get into older styles. The jump to "an OSR" (that phrasing hurts me psychically btw) seems like something I see a lot of young 5E players wanting to make after learning the game.Agreed - I game it a try for a year even.  Ran a fun little campaign, and decided it wasn't what I like, but it's still an RPG and I know it's exactly what others seem to like.</blockquote>

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