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<blockquote data-quote="Falling Icicle" data-source="post: 5775740" data-attributes="member: 17077">My problems with the magic in 4e isn't as much that they nerfed wizards, it's that they took all of the cool stuff away. Some of the spells I liked in past editions were made into costly rituals, but that just meant i could never use them in combat and rarely used them at all, considering their cost. I don't mind wizards that are balanced with other classes throughout all levels of play, what I mind are wizards that have basically the same, boring spells &quot;I do X damage and push it 1 square&quot; or &quot;I do X damage and do some minor annoying as hell to keep track of status debuff for 1 round.&quot; Other than their utility spells, which they got far too few of, wizards in 4e were just like every other class but with different flavor text on their powers. 4e homogenized the classes and made everything repetitive, simplified and boring, IMO. No longer did spells have V,S or M components. No longer could you disrupt spells by hitting the caster. You couldn't dispel someone else's spell unless it was a &quot;conjuration.&quot; Magic wasn't really distinguishable from any other &quot;power&quot; in any way, aside from a couple keywords. Bleh.I want wizards and other spellcasters to be MAGICAL again! I'm fine with balancing things like long range teleportation or getting rid of save-or-die spells. But, for the love of the gods, let me play a wizard that can charm things again, or a real necromancer, or a wizard that has lots of fun utility to play around with instead of all of my spells being &quot;I do X damage, [insert minor additional effect here]&quot;. The most fun I had playing wizards in pre 4e and pathfinder games was always finding fun and creative uses of non-damaging spells, like stone shape or transmute rock to mud. If 5e doesn't let me do things like that in combat as a spellcaster, I am simply not interested in ever playing it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Falling Icicle, post: 5775740, member: 17077"] My problems with the magic in 4e isn't as much that they nerfed wizards, it's that they took all of the cool stuff away. Some of the spells I liked in past editions were made into costly rituals, but that just meant i could never use them in combat and rarely used them at all, considering their cost. I don't mind wizards that are balanced with other classes throughout all levels of play, what I mind are wizards that have basically the same, boring spells "I do X damage and push it 1 square" or "I do X damage and do some minor annoying as hell to keep track of status debuff for 1 round." Other than their utility spells, which they got far too few of, wizards in 4e were just like every other class but with different flavor text on their powers. 4e homogenized the classes and made everything repetitive, simplified and boring, IMO. No longer did spells have V,S or M components. No longer could you disrupt spells by hitting the caster. You couldn't dispel someone else's spell unless it was a "conjuration." Magic wasn't really distinguishable from any other "power" in any way, aside from a couple keywords. Bleh. I want wizards and other spellcasters to be MAGICAL again! I'm fine with balancing things like long range teleportation or getting rid of save-or-die spells. But, for the love of the gods, let me play a wizard that can charm things again, or a real necromancer, or a wizard that has lots of fun utility to play around with instead of all of my spells being "I do X damage, [insert minor additional effect here]". The most fun I had playing wizards in pre 4e and pathfinder games was always finding fun and creative uses of non-damaging spells, like stone shape or transmute rock to mud. If 5e doesn't let me do things like that in combat as a spellcaster, I am simply not interested in ever playing it. [/QUOTE]

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