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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ARandomGod" data-source="post: 2749628" data-attributes="member: 17296">Interesting, and a good attempt to make all the abilities balanced.Personally, I've always left it alone in my games. But I have done some theory on how I personally would change the saves...Well, strength could affect some fort saves by, umm... well, some fort saves are really endurance saves, to see how long you can keep running, etc. Of course, some are to resist pain, and that seems more of a mental save to me. But at least there's some justification for that one.Intelligence a Reflex save. First off, there's precident. There is already a feat that allows one to substitute intelligence for dex in making reflex saves. I suppose the thought is that you're smart, and better prepared. Of course, really, Wisdom makes more sense than Intel for reflex saves. Wisdom is about perception, it's the skill I'd use for subliminally 'sensing' and being able to react to things that you didn't expect.Which leads on to my point, how I personally handled the "Ability point balance" in relation to saves. In short, I left it with three scores affecting saves, but moved them around. Fort staying on Con. Reflex moving to Wisdom, and Willpower moving to Charisma. More text on the subject below:First of all I left the Fort save on Con. Con doesn't do much else, it's just HP and Fort. Strength is already awesome, it doesn't need you to add anything else in, and I agree that in general it doesn't seem to apply much to Fort saves or any other save (possibly to endurance based fort saves, but even that is better off in Con IMO.Dex, another very very good ability. I think that, like strength, it doesn't 'need' the added Reflex save in order to be a good, strong ability. Plus in many ways Reflex saves to Dex doesn't make sense. You get a reflex save when you're flatfooted, when you're surprised by things. How does a strong dex allow you to react to things you don't notice (ok, I get the current justification that it helps you react faster when you finally do get around to noticing).  So I moved the Reflex save to where I think it really belongs. Wisdom. The perception ability. Wisdom is about sensing things, a sixth sense "reflex" save makes the most sense here. Having fast reactions doesn't let you react to a blade you didn't know was there in combat (flat-footed), so why should it help you react to one from a trap? And how did it let you know that THAT area is the one area in a fireball to be less affected?? Wisdom. Well, As stated above I've given it the reflex save. At this point it certainly doesn't need two saves. Move that Willpower save outa there! Willpower doesn't even make sense on wisdom anymore. Wisdom is about perception. How does 'percieving' that you're mentally dominated make it easier to have the force of personality to escape? Hell, even the dullest fighters (or of sorcs) know what's happening to them, they just don't know how to escape.Force of personality. Charisma. I move the Will save onto Charisma. If any ability needed boosting, this is the one! Put the willpower save here and every ability has something to offer. Plus it makes the most sense, with the Lore as it is. This is supposedly the ability Sorcs use to force the world to react to their will, but people can't even use it to force themselves to react to their own will? What's with that?This will also have some effects on the scores. Fighters stay pretty much the same, with perhaps the high dex fighters losing a lot of reflex saves... Rogues lose out on some power, but if they're charismatic rogues they get better will saves. Sorc's willpower saves go through the roof, but I don't really see a problem with that.The most major effect that I see is that it strengthens clerics in an interesting way, and they're already arguably the strongest class in the game. However... I don't really have a lot of people wanting to play clerics, so I haven't seen the 'cleric munchkin' that so many have spotted out there. So that's a non-issue in the games I run or play in.</blockquote>

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