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<blockquote data-quote="Sir Brennen" data-source="post: 2749785" data-attributes="member: 553">Hmmm... while I'm not crazy about the averaging of stats for the save categories, I do like the idea of having a separate category for each stat, and have thought about doing something similar for a long time.&nbsp; In fact, that's what I thought Nyaricus was talking about when I saw the thread title.Part of this stems from my dislike for the 'attribute check' concept in the game.&nbsp; It seems silly to me that as a fighter (for example) goes up in level, he becomes able to shrug off increasingly virulent poisons of mythological monsters and magical attempts to actually shapechange his body, but at 20th level he has just about the same chance to bust down a freakin' door as a first level dude (maybe a slightly better chance due to stat increases, but still...)I mean, isn't a Reflex save against a fireball really just a specialized Dex check?&nbsp; Isn't a Fortitude save against poison just a special Constitution check?And having a Str Save instead of a Str check would mean pesky, DM-headache spells like Web would become more relatively effective, with creatures having a chance overcome it at the same ratio as other spells compared to their level.Nyeshet's idea of making Will saves based on Cha is excellent, removing it's status as a dump stat.&nbsp; Specifying Wis for illusions and such is also a good call.Of course, such a change in the system would have some ripple effects in the Skill system, which still allows straight attribute checks for skills with no ranks (and usable untrained.)&nbsp; I'm sure there's some methods of tweaking that, though, to make it not completely break the system.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sir Brennen, post: 2749785, member: 553"] Hmmm... while I'm not crazy about the averaging of stats for the save categories, I do like the idea of having a separate category for each stat, and have thought about doing something similar for a long time. In fact, that's what I thought Nyaricus was talking about when I saw the thread title. Part of this stems from my dislike for the 'attribute check' concept in the game. It seems silly to me that as a fighter (for example) goes up in level, he becomes able to shrug off increasingly virulent poisons of mythological monsters and magical attempts to actually shapechange his body, but at 20th level he has just about the same chance to bust down a freakin' [i]door[/i] as a first level dude (maybe a [i]slightly[/i] better chance due to stat increases, but still...) I mean, isn't a Reflex save against a fireball really just a specialized Dex check? Isn't a Fortitude save against poison just a special Constitution check? And having a Str [b]Save[/b] instead of a Str [b]check[/b] would mean pesky, DM-headache spells like [i]Web[/i] would become more relatively effective, with creatures having a chance overcome it at the same ratio as other spells compared to their level. Nyeshet's idea of making Will saves based on Cha is excellent, removing it's status as a dump stat. Specifying Wis for illusions and such is also a good call. Of course, such a change in the system would have some ripple effects in the Skill system, which still allows straight attribute checks for skills with no ranks (and usable untrained.) I'm sure there's some methods of tweaking that, though, to make it not completely break the system. [/QUOTE]

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