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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8991807" data-attributes="member: 6790260">I can only go by the numbers in front of me. The level 35 god Lolth has AC 51. Her other defenses are effectively equivalent (high 40s, since AC is usually 2 points higher than average NADs.) To have normal hit rates, you would need +51 or better to your rolls. The best I could come up with, even with impossibly high numbers, was +31 at that level. (10 half level + 8 stat mod + 3 accurate weapon prof + 3 expertise + 6 magic weapon + 1 from some other bonus = +31. This even assumes better weapons, stats, etc. than a level 21 char in general would have. +27 or +28 is much more likely.)I'm not saying you are lying. I believe your group had a curb stomp battle. I have zero difficulty accepting that you are accurately describing the events that occurred when your group went to fight Lolth.What I am saying is, you didn't fight the level 35 god unmodified. You fought a Lolth with different baseline values (e.g. recalculated to be something like level 25 instead of 35), or you had other buffs to yourselves or debuffs to Lolth to make it possible, or some combination of the two. Those changes likely overshot, and are thus what made it a cakewalk, not the system itself. The actual system, when used as designed (fights within roughly a range of level-4 to level+5) will produce fairly consistent results. Fight stuff weaker than you, and it will usually be easier. Fight stuff tougher than you, and you will have to work harder. There will always be variation because D&amp;D is a probabilistic game. But that variation will remain, the vast majority of the time, within the range the designers wanted it to be, even in the face of many variables all pushing and pulling in different directions.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8991807, member: 6790260"] I can only go by the numbers in front of me. The level 35 god Lolth has AC 51. Her other defenses are effectively equivalent (high 40s, since AC is usually 2 points higher than average NADs.) To have normal hit rates, you would need +51 or better to your rolls. The best I could come up with, even with impossibly high numbers, was +31 at that level. (10 half level + 8 stat mod + 3 accurate weapon prof + 3 expertise + 6 magic weapon + 1 from some other bonus = +31. This even assumes better weapons, stats, etc. than a level 21 char in general would have. +27 or +28 is much more likely.) I'm [I]not[/I] saying you are lying. I believe your group had a curb stomp battle. I have zero difficulty accepting that you are accurately describing the events that occurred when your group went to fight Lolth. What I [I]am[/I] saying is, you didn't fight the level 35 god [B]unmodified[/B]. You fought a Lolth with different baseline values (e.g. recalculated to be something like level 25 instead of 35), or you had other buffs to yourselves or debuffs to Lolth to make it possible, or some combination of the two. Those changes likely overshot, and are thus what made it a cakewalk, not the system itself. The actual system, when used as designed (fights within roughly a range of level-4 to level+5) will produce fairly consistent results. Fight stuff weaker than you, and it will usually be easier. Fight stuff tougher than you, and you will have to work harder. There will always be variation because D&D is a probabilistic game. But that variation will remain, the vast majority of the time, within the range the designers wanted it to be, even in the face of many variables all pushing and pulling in different directions. [/QUOTE]

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