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<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 8992839" data-attributes="member: 6801845">Epic level play in 4E was an interesting experiment, but it was very difficult to set up appropriate challenges.&nbsp; Player's capabilities to shut down or bypass challenges altogether abounded.&nbsp; I played in the LFR (the public play for 4E)&nbsp; campaign that went to 30th and one of the biggest complaints was that the modules constantly came up with some fabricated reason we couldn't use our powers.&nbsp; Especially the first few modules in the series were &quot;Ha ha!&nbsp; You can't use all those toys you've worked so hard to get!&quot;It took me a while to figure out how to handle it for my home campaign and I'm not sure I ever really succeeded.&nbsp; Battlefield control, totally nerfing the opponent, was just built in to the DNA of 4E.&nbsp; When the PCs did it, games became boring because there was no real challenge.&nbsp; When the monsters did it it was boring because players had no choice but to sit and wait.&nbsp; Still can be an issue in 5E of course, and about the only solos I've found that work are creatures like dragons that can fly out of sight on their turn (which can have it's own frustrations) but for me it's been easier to find the right balance.&nbsp; Of course I get to stop at level 20 now and that helps as well.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 8992839, member: 6801845"] Epic level play in 4E was an interesting experiment, but it was very difficult to set up appropriate challenges. Player's capabilities to shut down or bypass challenges altogether abounded. I played in the LFR (the public play for 4E) campaign that went to 30th and one of the biggest complaints was that the modules constantly came up with some fabricated reason we couldn't use our powers. Especially the first few modules in the series were "Ha ha! You can't use all those toys you've worked so hard to get!" It took me a while to figure out how to handle it for my home campaign and I'm not sure I ever really succeeded. Battlefield control, totally nerfing the opponent, was just built in to the DNA of 4E. When the PCs did it, games became boring because there was no real challenge. When the monsters did it it was boring because players had no choice but to sit and wait. Still can be an issue in 5E of course, and about the only solos I've found that work are creatures like dragons that can fly out of sight on their turn (which can have it's own frustrations) but for me it's been easier to find the right balance. Of course I get to stop at level 20 now and that helps as well. [/QUOTE]

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