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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 9326715" data-attributes="member: 29398">I only have the first 4e PH which doesn't have Illusion spells (or Illusionists as a mage variant); the closest I can find in it are Hallucinatory Creature (12th) and Hallucinatory Item (5th) as rituals.&nbsp; If illusions are discussed further in the later PHs, that's not something I can see.And they're nerfed from what illusions could do in 1e.In 1e, Spectral Force (3rd-level Illus spell) could affect all five senses, including touch; if you believed the illusion to be real it could hurt you or even kill you.&nbsp; H-Creature here - at a considerably higher equivalent level - specifically states it affects sight, smell, and hearing but leaves it an open question whether touch is affected...in a rather messy way.&nbsp; It says in its examples of what the caster can have the creature &quot;do&quot; that the caster can have the creature chew on nearby plants, but doesn't state whether those plants will behave as if being chewed on.&nbsp; It clearly states that if the viewer touches the creature it's revealed to be fake but says nothing about what happens if the creature touches - or attacks! - the viewer.&nbsp; And HC only generates a creature, where Spectral Force could generate anything the caster could dream up; though in return it does last for 24 hours where SF only lasts as long as the caster can maintain concentration.H-Item seems to be the equivalent of 1e's Phantasmal Force (1st-level Illus spell), affecting vision only; and again trades non-concentrating duration for the loss of ability to have it move and-or be anything other than a single object.In either case, these two rituals seem to somewhat limit the think-outside-the-box options provided by the Phantasmal and Spectral Force spells.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 9326715, member: 29398"] I only have the first 4e PH which doesn't have Illusion spells (or Illusionists as a mage variant); the closest I can find in it are [I]Hallucinatory Creature[/I] (12th) and [I]Hallucinatory Item[/I] (5th) as rituals. If illusions are discussed further in the later PHs, that's not something I can see. And they're nerfed from what illusions could do in 1e. In 1e, [I]Spectral Force[/I] (3rd-level Illus spell) could affect all five senses, including touch; if you believed the illusion to be real it could hurt you or even kill you. [I]H-Creature[/I] here - at a considerably higher equivalent level - specifically states it affects sight, smell, and hearing but leaves it an open question whether touch is affected...in a rather messy way. It says in its examples of what the caster can have the creature "do" that the caster can have the creature chew on nearby plants, but doesn't state whether those plants will behave as if being chewed on. It clearly states that if the viewer touches the creature it's revealed to be fake but says nothing about what happens if the creature touches - or attacks! - the viewer. And HC only generates a creature, where [I]Spectral Force[/I] could generate anything the caster could dream up; though in return it does last for 24 hours where SF only lasts as long as the caster can maintain concentration. [I]H-Item[/I] seems to be the equivalent of 1e's [I]Phantasmal Force[/I] (1st-level Illus spell), affecting vision only; and again trades non-concentrating duration for the loss of ability to have it move and-or be anything other than a single object. In either case, these two rituals seem to somewhat limit the think-outside-the-box options provided by the [I]Phantasmal[/I] and [I]Spectral Force[/I] spells. [/QUOTE]

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