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Message: <blockquote data-quote="John Quixote" data-source="post: 402259" data-attributes="member: 694">The only thing that annoys me about epic levels is the dropoff of base attack bonuses.  If a solar, with its meager 22 hit dice, gets five armed attacks, why is my 20th level wizard/5,000,000th level epic fighter forever frozen at two attacks in a round?  A normal 20th level fighter could outmatch my epic character for speed.  That defies logic.  It makes no sense whatsoever.  So, in order to throw epic multiclasses a bit of a bone, I've been working on a system that grants extra attacks after level 20.  You can't just continue BAB -- that stacks attacks too quickly.  You can't use EAB -- that means all characters get extra attacks at the same rate, which is bad: it MUST be based on character class.  So, on to the system.After level 20, characters start earning AP (attack points) based on hit die (since epic prestige classes have no attack bonus):1d12 = 4 AP1d10 = 4 AP1d8  = 3 AP1d6  = 3 AP1d4  = 2 APExtra armed attacks, which come at the -5 iteration, cost 48 APs to buy, which basically requires twelve epic fighter levels, 36 epic cleric levels, or 44 epic wizard levels, or some judicious multiclass combination; the only reason attacks were broken down into APs in the first place was to accomodate multiclassed characters.Extra unarmed attacks cost 24 APs, but may only be purchased with APs earned with monk levels.  These attacks come at the -3 iteration.At this point, implementing the rule requires the DM to make a call about the nature of his epic campaign.  Do I still want my game to feel realistic, or do the players become wuxai heroes once they hit blackjack?  It basically boils down to realism vs. wire-fu.Realism Implementation: No, contrary to popular belief, "realism" is not a bad word in D&D.  It simply means patterened after reality, where normal physics and limitations apply in situations excluding fantasy elements.  The existence of wizards does not preclude realism from D&D, but that's a rant for another thread.  This variant simply means that the above rules are used to accomodate people who become fighters and monks after level 20 -- the normal limits of four armed and five unarmed attacks are still strictly enforced for everyone except solars.    <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />   A DM who wished to preserve balance a little better could further rule that a character with 2 attacks earned no APs from wizard/sorcerer/psion/prestige-mage levels, while a character with 3 attacks could only gain APs from fighter/paladin/ranger/barbarian/prestige-warrior levels.  That way wizards are still capped at two attacks and clerics and rogues at three, but multiclassing opens the door to more hits.Wire-Fu Implementation: High-level heroes do things that Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragonball Z characters do.  They can smack an armed defender ten times with a sword in the span of six seconds.  With the Wuxai and Improved Flying feats, they can probably float around, too.  In this sort of campaign, there is no limit on the number of attacks a character can build up -- a 50th level fighter enjoys six armed attacks, while a 50th level monk gets eight unarmed strikes.  In order to cut down on the dice, all attacks after the first four (or five) are considered to take 10 and cannot critically hit or miss.</blockquote>

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