Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The Art and the Artist: Discussing Problematic Issues in D&D
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Bedrockgames" data-source="post: 8527001" data-attributes="member: 85555"><p>Thank you, I appreciate that. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Absolutely. I am not saying you will ever have 100% certainty about an artist's intentions, nor am I saying there can't be valuable interpretations of their work outside their intent. And the availability of primary source material from the author will always vary, in some cases be non-existent. But I think something to consider is there are different approaches here. A lot of posters seem to have a media studies, critical studies or literary studies mindset. My background is history. In history, at least at the time I studied it, shortly after the end of the linguistic turn, intent was our focus. It wasn't the only thing. Context mattered. But I think when you come from that kind of background, you approach these things differently than someone coming at it from say a literary studies background. I tend to be very cautious, very slow, and very measured in forming my opinions about what the intentions and meaning of a document is (especially if we are talking about that in terms of something like racial and cultural issue and not simply what an RPG books meaning is in terms of how many d10s you roll). And to me figuring out the intent, assessing what the culture was like when it came, etc, those are very important to me. And I will be able to do more with some writers and designers than others because some left a bigger paper trail. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't 100% agree with this. I do think you have your genuine reaction and that is real. However I think if you are making a moral assessment about the work, what the author intended really does matter. Now you can also consider how people overall interpreted it. For example if a game designer made a joke that anyone who likes dice pools should be burned at the stake-----you not understanding it was a joke, and assuming he literally wanted to light dice pool fans on fire, would be an invalid interpretation. However if he expressed it so poorly that the majority of gamers shared your interpretation and launched an inquisition to burn alive any who dared to dice pool, then that I think that is where stuff like the impact has to be considered (even if that wasn't the author's intent). </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure. I mean think this is fair. We going to find much different meaning in the same book. I still think though, there are better and worse analysis of the book. If we both read the 1st edition DMG, and I come away saying it "It was a riveting manual on airplane construction" and you said "It was a guide to running an RPG", your interoperation and reaction would be more valid. On the other hand if my reaction was "A magnificent book!" and yours was "A terrible book!", sure both valid reaction because those are subjective responses. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is hard to answer without specifics. But I think what we know about the artist can change both of our perspectives, and it can also shed light on who is closer to the intended meaning of the work. Again, I think people weigh intent differently. I tend to rate it very high. And so I would advocate for factoring in intent with this stuff. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And again if we are talking about you loved the movie or book because of X, and I hated it because of Y, sure. That is fair. On the other hand, if you and I see the same movie and one of us says it is morally bad, perhaps that one of us is morally bad if we like and defend it, or don't see the moral badness of it, I think intent really becomes important. It isn't the only thing. Something can be unintentionally morally bad (though I would argue that is less bad usually than something that is intentionally so). But if you are arguing it is bad because it is saying X, then yes, we definitely need to figure out if the author was trying to say X or not.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bedrockgames, post: 8527001, member: 85555"] Thank you, I appreciate that. Absolutely. I am not saying you will ever have 100% certainty about an artist's intentions, nor am I saying there can't be valuable interpretations of their work outside their intent. And the availability of primary source material from the author will always vary, in some cases be non-existent. But I think something to consider is there are different approaches here. A lot of posters seem to have a media studies, critical studies or literary studies mindset. My background is history. In history, at least at the time I studied it, shortly after the end of the linguistic turn, intent was our focus. It wasn't the only thing. Context mattered. But I think when you come from that kind of background, you approach these things differently than someone coming at it from say a literary studies background. I tend to be very cautious, very slow, and very measured in forming my opinions about what the intentions and meaning of a document is (especially if we are talking about that in terms of something like racial and cultural issue and not simply what an RPG books meaning is in terms of how many d10s you roll). And to me figuring out the intent, assessing what the culture was like when it came, etc, those are very important to me. And I will be able to do more with some writers and designers than others because some left a bigger paper trail. I don't 100% agree with this. I do think you have your genuine reaction and that is real. However I think if you are making a moral assessment about the work, what the author intended really does matter. Now you can also consider how people overall interpreted it. For example if a game designer made a joke that anyone who likes dice pools should be burned at the stake-----you not understanding it was a joke, and assuming he literally wanted to light dice pool fans on fire, would be an invalid interpretation. However if he expressed it so poorly that the majority of gamers shared your interpretation and launched an inquisition to burn alive any who dared to dice pool, then that I think that is where stuff like the impact has to be considered (even if that wasn't the author's intent). Sure. I mean think this is fair. We going to find much different meaning in the same book. I still think though, there are better and worse analysis of the book. If we both read the 1st edition DMG, and I come away saying it "It was a riveting manual on airplane construction" and you said "It was a guide to running an RPG", your interoperation and reaction would be more valid. On the other hand if my reaction was "A magnificent book!" and yours was "A terrible book!", sure both valid reaction because those are subjective responses. This is hard to answer without specifics. But I think what we know about the artist can change both of our perspectives, and it can also shed light on who is closer to the intended meaning of the work. Again, I think people weigh intent differently. I tend to rate it very high. And so I would advocate for factoring in intent with this stuff. And again if we are talking about you loved the movie or book because of X, and I hated it because of Y, sure. That is fair. On the other hand, if you and I see the same movie and one of us says it is morally bad, perhaps that one of us is morally bad if we like and defend it, or don't see the moral badness of it, I think intent really becomes important. It isn't the only thing. Something can be unintentionally morally bad (though I would argue that is less bad usually than something that is intentionally so). But if you are arguing it is bad because it is saying X, then yes, we definitely need to figure out if the author was trying to say X or not. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The Art and the Artist: Discussing Problematic Issues in D&D
Top