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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sadrik" data-source="post: 4225134" data-attributes="member: 14506">Excellent points. However I am still of the opinion, if they want the class to get played they need to have a non-musical avenue. It seems, players are always trying to "get creative" when developing a bard character and trying to "explain away" the musical portions of the class. From the various groups I have played over the course of 3e (from gencon when I first got the PHB) there has been exactly one bard. Interestingly, he was a straight up bard with a flute and not a debater, shield pounder, or some other shoe horned bard concept.  The character died and the player made a new character (monk) that was more effective in the party.Jack-of-all-Trades is a concept that if anyone can or should pull off it is the bard. Even the 1e bard was a bit of everything. I had one of those way back then too. He called himself a storm bard and had a magic trident and was mostly a fighter. Neat character, did a little bit of everything, but didn't sing for sure.As far as "Lorekeeper" the bard is a natural choice for historian role of a fantasy world. Who else to keep the histories than the bardic colleges? Organizations that pride themselves on oral and written histories. Like in my original post, what better way to actually make them a little more arcane and mysterious than to have the college be an arcane representation of that knowledge rather than a physical location they convene to. Tie that with the "bardic knowledge" class feature and wala you have a bard who now has a mystical reason why he can access knowledge that no one should know about. You also have a way to tap into neat combat powers they could use. For instance, in the story of Jack the giant killer, Jack utilized a tactic that allowed him to do more damage to the giant or dodge the giant. This is story could be a secret bardic knowledge that the college has and bard's of that college can have access to. Before the fight the bard tells the party the tactic and during the fight they get some bonus. And during the fight the bard could yell at the fighter and say, "Remember how Jack did it, slash at the ankles" giving the fighter a bonus to damage or whatever. Lorekeeper, can be just as easily adapted as a musician (I stand in the back strumming my lute to give a combat bonus, I yell at you and do sonic damage), it just hasn't been done before.Also, I am not saying that a bard shouldn't have a musical option. They should. What better way to capture knowledge than through song and prose. Those should be captured in the bardic colleges just as other knowledge is captured. But those should be bardic colleges that specialize in performing the knowledge that they have captured. Not every bardic college should have to perform their knowledge. Others should have, secrets they must keep, mysteries they must uncover, oaths they must abide and histories they must chronicle. All the while they utilize the knowledge they have gained to activate their abilities to gain advantage in and out of battle.</blockquote>

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