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<blockquote data-quote="Malmuria" data-source="post: 8553452" data-attributes="member: 7030755">Thanks for this great write up!Black Hack and White Hack are of course derivative of dnd generally, but not of OD&amp;D specifically.Black Hack is distinct from OD&amp;D in a number of ways.&nbsp; It uses a unified resolution mechanic based on ability scores, complete with advantage and disadvantage, and using ability scores for saves which is very modern; it is roll under, universally; it doesn't have races; it doesn't have AC and instead uses an ablative armor system; spell level corresponds directly with class level; classes level at the same time and the game uses milestone leveling (you have to carouse after a trip to the dungeon); players roll to both attack and defend, using monster HD and class level to figure out bonuses or penalties; and it uses completely new (and great) mechanics like usage die.&nbsp; If you told some grognards you were starting a game of OD&amp;D, and when they turned up it was Black Hack, they would be extremely upset (they should only be mildly upset, but these are grognards we are talking about).White Hack (which I'm currently running) is even further removed.&nbsp; It is derived and compatible with older dnd editions, but it abstracts everything about dnd to create a ruleset that can handle all sorts of different genres.&nbsp; It's difficult to describe but the design goal seems to have been to make any character concept viable, fitting within the rules while still being unique.&nbsp; If you told grognards you were playing OD&amp;D and when they turned up it was White Hack, they would be...extremely, super duper pissed, and probably take their dice and go home.That said, I love both of these games.&nbsp; The Black Hack is fantastic for gonzo dungeon crawls, even if you don't use all the rules, while the White Hack is great for collaborative, player-led OSR campaigns.&nbsp; I would put them with other &quot;new school&quot; OSR games like Into the Odd, Knave, Maze Rats, Mork Borg, etc, all of which are compatible with early editions but take a much more modern sensibility.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Malmuria, post: 8553452, member: 7030755"] Thanks for this great write up! Black Hack and White Hack are of course derivative of dnd generally, but not of OD&D specifically. Black Hack is distinct from OD&D in a number of ways. It uses a unified resolution mechanic based on ability scores, complete with advantage and disadvantage, and using ability scores for saves which is very modern; it is roll under, universally; it doesn't have races; it doesn't have AC and instead uses an ablative armor system; spell level corresponds directly with class level; classes level at the same time and the game uses milestone leveling (you have to carouse after a trip to the dungeon); players roll to both attack and defend, using monster HD and class level to figure out bonuses or penalties; and it uses completely new (and great) mechanics like usage die. If you told some grognards you were starting a game of OD&D, and when they turned up it was Black Hack, they would be extremely upset (they should only be mildly upset, but these are grognards we are talking about). White Hack (which I'm currently running) is even further removed. It is derived and compatible with older dnd editions, but it abstracts everything about dnd to create a ruleset that can handle all sorts of different genres. It's difficult to describe but the design goal seems to have been to make any character concept viable, fitting within the rules while still being unique. If you told grognards you were playing OD&D and when they turned up it was White Hack, they would be...extremely, super duper pissed, and probably take their dice and go home. That said, I love both of these games. The Black Hack is fantastic for gonzo dungeon crawls, even if you don't use all the rules, while the White Hack is great for collaborative, player-led OSR campaigns. I would put them with other "new school" OSR games like Into the Odd, Knave, Maze Rats, Mork Borg, etc, all of which are compatible with early editions but take a much more modern sensibility. [/QUOTE]

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