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The best representations of the power fantasies D&D has had
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 9291216" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>I just thought I'd go through the 5e classes to see what were the best representations of the archetype and power fantasy of the class any edition had had.</p><p></p><p><strong>Barbarian</strong>. This one goes to 5e in a comfortable walk. Honestly no one likes the 1e thing, the 3.0 and 3.5 ones were just angy fighters. And the 4e ones, although actually varied and interesting were too fiddly for the Hulk Smash class.</p><p></p><p><strong>Bard</strong>. <em>No one.</em> No D&D class has ever given me the feeling of being an actual bard with their own magic of music and the heart. I have fondness for <em>all</em> of the 2e, 3.5, 4e, and 5e bards but none of them scratch the itch. (The 1e and 3.0 bards are for different reasons both just bad).</p><p></p><p><strong>Cleric</strong>. I have never seen a cleric in any edition that made me think "this character is empowered by the magic of prayer and divine beings". The ineffables are too easily effed. The closest to a cleric that doesn't feel "mechanics first" to me has been the 4e Malediction Invoker that at least paid a price for their power.</p><p></p><p><strong>Druid.</strong> I'm again giving this to 5e. Largely for the versatility of the 5e wildshaping and the way it's used by the subclasses.</p><p></p><p><strong>Fighter.</strong> This one I have several options for because the fighter is a <em>big</em> archetype. And 5e comes close to some of the highs.</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">2e Fighter. Simple, mighty, resilient. What more do you want?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">4e Fighter. A tactical master that commands the battlefield and no one dares to take their eyes off.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">4e Warlord. Someone at home in battle who can adapt to the foe, yell at people to get back on their feet because their granny could do better, and shout warnings at the last minute. I think this <em>could</em> be put into the fighter - but 5e <em>doesn't</em>.</li> </ul><p><strong>Monk.</strong> 4e takes this, in part by being the most functional of any edition (with only 5e also even making basic functionality) and partly from the techniques combining a move-trick with an attack.</p><p></p><p><strong>Paladin. </strong>I have two contenders here.</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">5e Paladin. Taking forward the vows (and lack of falling meaning you no longer need a stick up your posterior) of 4e, the 5e paladin's smites are just nice all round.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">3.5 Crusader (Tome of Battle). The random flow of which of your normal maneuvers you get makes for an interesting and different class with thematic abilities and just a touch of the unexpected. And is the closest to an actual divine class I've seen in any edition; prayers for aid should not be regular as clockwork.</li> </ul><p><strong>Ranger.</strong> Again there are a lot of contenders here - but most versions of the ranger don't quite land for me. The 5e one in particular (with or without Tasha's) feels more like a hedge wizard than a ranger; there's far too much spellcasting here. By contrast the 4e PHB ranger feels like a skirmish fighter who's spent a little time as a boy scout. And the 1e Ranger was just Aragorn: the Class. I think overall I have to very grudgingly give it to the 4e Essentials hunter and possibly scout.</p><p></p><p><strong>Rogue.</strong> 4e made the <em>huge</em> upgrade of putting things onto minor (a.k.a. bonus a.k.a. swift) actions as part of the class features, and 5e took this on. But honestly I find the 5e rogue boring to play - and that it doesn't really give me the "you are using your wits and slipperiness on the edge" that I feel that the rogue should; Sneak Attack is painfully easy to get. So I'm going for the 4e Thief.</p><p></p><p><strong>Sorcerer.</strong> The Sorcerer was invented for 3.0 and the 3.0 and 3.5 Sorcerers were wannabe wizards. 4e actually used the fluff and theming (Sorcerers are the "everything else" caster who aren't book learners, channeling the wild, or having patrons). But this actually goes two ways.</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">4e Elementalist. The simple "I burn it" class that goes alongside the barbarian for simple and effective mechanics. Pick an element and get stuff to go with it.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">5e Tasha's Sorcerers. The 5e PHB sorcerer is crippled by not knowing enough spells. But give two extra spells per level from the subclass (and retcon it to the pre-Tasha's sorcerers) and the sorcerer works well as a build-your-own class.</li> </ul><p><strong>Warlock.</strong> Much as it breaks my heart to not nominate the 4e warlock, and much as I'd like some of the Curse-shenanigans of 4e (and want the Vestige and Sorcerer King patrons back), the 5e Warlock is just more interesting and versatile with stronger theming.</p><p></p><p><strong>Wizard.</strong> Here I'm going for the 3.0 version or possibly the 2e version of the class. Full Vancian Casting I think should be brought back for the wizard and <em>only</em> the wizard. It makes it clear it really is earned magic that they are using - and also gives them more of a power budget for their classes. And further separates them from the sorcerer.</p><p></p><p><strong>Artificer.</strong> Not a PHB class - but the only one to be added to 5e post-launch, the Artificer has only been in three editions. The 4e one was a clean miss, not actually making things. The 3.5 was an OP fiddly class. And the 5e one, thanks to spells having fixed levels is significantly worse at making permanent things like Continual Flames or Teleportation Circles than the wizard and also can't make permanent magic items. The subclasses are good (balance issues aside) and they don't get nearly so much dumpster diving through everything. So just a miss; they need their own versions of spells like Fabricate, and to craft a permanent item per level.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 9291216, member: 87792"] I just thought I'd go through the 5e classes to see what were the best representations of the archetype and power fantasy of the class any edition had had. [B]Barbarian[/B]. This one goes to 5e in a comfortable walk. Honestly no one likes the 1e thing, the 3.0 and 3.5 ones were just angy fighters. And the 4e ones, although actually varied and interesting were too fiddly for the Hulk Smash class. [B]Bard[/B]. [I]No one.[/I] No D&D class has ever given me the feeling of being an actual bard with their own magic of music and the heart. I have fondness for [I]all[/I] of the 2e, 3.5, 4e, and 5e bards but none of them scratch the itch. (The 1e and 3.0 bards are for different reasons both just bad). [B]Cleric[/B]. I have never seen a cleric in any edition that made me think "this character is empowered by the magic of prayer and divine beings". The ineffables are too easily effed. The closest to a cleric that doesn't feel "mechanics first" to me has been the 4e Malediction Invoker that at least paid a price for their power. [B]Druid.[/B] I'm again giving this to 5e. Largely for the versatility of the 5e wildshaping and the way it's used by the subclasses. [B]Fighter.[/B] This one I have several options for because the fighter is a [I]big[/I] archetype. And 5e comes close to some of the highs. [LIST] [*]2e Fighter. Simple, mighty, resilient. What more do you want? [*]4e Fighter. A tactical master that commands the battlefield and no one dares to take their eyes off. [*]4e Warlord. Someone at home in battle who can adapt to the foe, yell at people to get back on their feet because their granny could do better, and shout warnings at the last minute. I think this [I]could[/I] be put into the fighter - but 5e [I]doesn't[/I]. [/LIST] [B]Monk.[/B] 4e takes this, in part by being the most functional of any edition (with only 5e also even making basic functionality) and partly from the techniques combining a move-trick with an attack. [B]Paladin. [/B]I have two contenders here. [LIST] [*]5e Paladin. Taking forward the vows (and lack of falling meaning you no longer need a stick up your posterior) of 4e, the 5e paladin's smites are just nice all round. [*]3.5 Crusader (Tome of Battle). The random flow of which of your normal maneuvers you get makes for an interesting and different class with thematic abilities and just a touch of the unexpected. And is the closest to an actual divine class I've seen in any edition; prayers for aid should not be regular as clockwork. [/LIST] [B]Ranger.[/B] Again there are a lot of contenders here - but most versions of the ranger don't quite land for me. The 5e one in particular (with or without Tasha's) feels more like a hedge wizard than a ranger; there's far too much spellcasting here. By contrast the 4e PHB ranger feels like a skirmish fighter who's spent a little time as a boy scout. And the 1e Ranger was just Aragorn: the Class. I think overall I have to very grudgingly give it to the 4e Essentials hunter and possibly scout. [B]Rogue.[/B] 4e made the [I]huge[/I] upgrade of putting things onto minor (a.k.a. bonus a.k.a. swift) actions as part of the class features, and 5e took this on. But honestly I find the 5e rogue boring to play - and that it doesn't really give me the "you are using your wits and slipperiness on the edge" that I feel that the rogue should; Sneak Attack is painfully easy to get. So I'm going for the 4e Thief. [B]Sorcerer.[/B] The Sorcerer was invented for 3.0 and the 3.0 and 3.5 Sorcerers were wannabe wizards. 4e actually used the fluff and theming (Sorcerers are the "everything else" caster who aren't book learners, channeling the wild, or having patrons). But this actually goes two ways. [LIST] [*]4e Elementalist. The simple "I burn it" class that goes alongside the barbarian for simple and effective mechanics. Pick an element and get stuff to go with it. [*]5e Tasha's Sorcerers. The 5e PHB sorcerer is crippled by not knowing enough spells. But give two extra spells per level from the subclass (and retcon it to the pre-Tasha's sorcerers) and the sorcerer works well as a build-your-own class. [/LIST] [B]Warlock.[/B] Much as it breaks my heart to not nominate the 4e warlock, and much as I'd like some of the Curse-shenanigans of 4e (and want the Vestige and Sorcerer King patrons back), the 5e Warlock is just more interesting and versatile with stronger theming. [B]Wizard.[/B] Here I'm going for the 3.0 version or possibly the 2e version of the class. Full Vancian Casting I think should be brought back for the wizard and [I]only[/I] the wizard. It makes it clear it really is earned magic that they are using - and also gives them more of a power budget for their classes. And further separates them from the sorcerer. [B]Artificer.[/B] Not a PHB class - but the only one to be added to 5e post-launch, the Artificer has only been in three editions. The 4e one was a clean miss, not actually making things. The 3.5 was an OP fiddly class. And the 5e one, thanks to spells having fixed levels is significantly worse at making permanent things like Continual Flames or Teleportation Circles than the wizard and also can't make permanent magic items. The subclasses are good (balance issues aside) and they don't get nearly so much dumpster diving through everything. So just a miss; they need their own versions of spells like Fabricate, and to craft a permanent item per level. [/QUOTE]
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