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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6565322" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>It is certainly interesting to look at multiple sides of these things. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, there is obviously a few other perspectives. For me all those details are just boring. I'm not playing or GMing D&D to deal with accounting for each arrow and ration of hard tack. You can empower people just as much by, for instance, letting them make checks to determine what they did or didn't realize they would need. Crossing the desert? Nature check to see if you brought enough water. Maybe a Streetwise check to see if you picked up a good map in the last town, etc. I don't think everything needs to be that abstracted, the plot may well demand that the PCs negotiate for the treasure map with the local thieves, etc. but any details which haven't been filled in could simply be left as part of the undifferentiated background of the game which is subject to the dice when it might have an impact in play. This of course leads to a 'test the character' type of play, at the very least. I find it well-suited to a fast action-adventure type of game where non-action scenes are framing and pacing mechanisms, so you don't necessarily HAVE to go through hours of table time with "OK, we go to the market, and lets make a list of every item we could use in the desert, and how much it weighs and costs so we can make sure we get the most useful stuff we can carry within our gp budget." That's not a bad kind of game at all, but in my preferred kind of game those scenes are just one-liners "we stock up on supplies!" and then I describe the marketplace and maybe there's some intrigue or something, but the actual mundane details of it don't intrude, so the game maintains a quick focused pace. </p><p></p><p>Anyway, I think this is no less empowering to the players. They know how it works and they're well aware of how likely their character is to remember to bring along the rasher of bacon. If they're especially concerned about some particular thing, they can be specific about it, which also serves to nicely enable the players to easily help direct the story focus and plot. </p><p></p><p></p><p>The problem is how could you do that? You would literally have to define THOUSANDS of powers and somehow manage who has which ones. Its just not something that any game can practically accomplish.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think everything is already filtered through the DM. It seems to me that the DM is always the universal interface to the whole world for the players at all times and places. Nothing ever escapes from DM purview, and by extension nothing isn't subject to DM manipulation at some level. I'm entirely certain that if I gave your RPG to my old AD&D DM that he would still totally railroad every session of every game. It wouldn't even be a speedbump. Now, for YOU, knowing what you want you are perfectly well-served by your own system. The designers of a game that is going to be played by EVERYONE OTOH don't have that luxury. Knowing that DMs can simply do as they wish in every game all they can really do is present a set of rules that gives everyone tools to do things at some level in some way. I don't think 'player empowerment' in the sense that you use the term is really within their realm to consider. Its totally up to the DM to grant or deny.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6565322, member: 82106"] It is certainly interesting to look at multiple sides of these things. Well, there is obviously a few other perspectives. For me all those details are just boring. I'm not playing or GMing D&D to deal with accounting for each arrow and ration of hard tack. You can empower people just as much by, for instance, letting them make checks to determine what they did or didn't realize they would need. Crossing the desert? Nature check to see if you brought enough water. Maybe a Streetwise check to see if you picked up a good map in the last town, etc. I don't think everything needs to be that abstracted, the plot may well demand that the PCs negotiate for the treasure map with the local thieves, etc. but any details which haven't been filled in could simply be left as part of the undifferentiated background of the game which is subject to the dice when it might have an impact in play. This of course leads to a 'test the character' type of play, at the very least. I find it well-suited to a fast action-adventure type of game where non-action scenes are framing and pacing mechanisms, so you don't necessarily HAVE to go through hours of table time with "OK, we go to the market, and lets make a list of every item we could use in the desert, and how much it weighs and costs so we can make sure we get the most useful stuff we can carry within our gp budget." That's not a bad kind of game at all, but in my preferred kind of game those scenes are just one-liners "we stock up on supplies!" and then I describe the marketplace and maybe there's some intrigue or something, but the actual mundane details of it don't intrude, so the game maintains a quick focused pace. Anyway, I think this is no less empowering to the players. They know how it works and they're well aware of how likely their character is to remember to bring along the rasher of bacon. If they're especially concerned about some particular thing, they can be specific about it, which also serves to nicely enable the players to easily help direct the story focus and plot. The problem is how could you do that? You would literally have to define THOUSANDS of powers and somehow manage who has which ones. Its just not something that any game can practically accomplish. I think everything is already filtered through the DM. It seems to me that the DM is always the universal interface to the whole world for the players at all times and places. Nothing ever escapes from DM purview, and by extension nothing isn't subject to DM manipulation at some level. I'm entirely certain that if I gave your RPG to my old AD&D DM that he would still totally railroad every session of every game. It wouldn't even be a speedbump. Now, for YOU, knowing what you want you are perfectly well-served by your own system. The designers of a game that is going to be played by EVERYONE OTOH don't have that luxury. Knowing that DMs can simply do as they wish in every game all they can really do is present a set of rules that gives everyone tools to do things at some level in some way. I don't think 'player empowerment' in the sense that you use the term is really within their realm to consider. Its totally up to the DM to grant or deny. [/QUOTE]
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