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D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
The Best Thing from 4E
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<blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 6566030" data-attributes="member: 6668292"><p>Well, it ate my reply to you, and I'm not going to write it all up again. The main points: </p><p></p><p><strong>(1)</strong> I like details, and it doesn't have to be mundane exploration tracking. One of the PCs in my long-running 3.X game lost both his eyes, and if he hadn't been blinded in our fourth session, things would have been massively different. So that's why I like details like that.</p><p></p><p><strong>(2)</strong> Empowering players comes in when you take power away from the GM and give it to the players. In my system, the players have the capability to determine the DC of a check, and find ways to hit that DC, forcing events to happen. So they can determine that someone is very hard to convince, find out why, and find ways around it. This is all mechanically. And that takes power from the GM and gives it to the players, which is what I would describe as player empowerment.</p><p></p><p><strong>(3)</strong> I don't think player empowerment usually avoids GMs that want to railroad. But it can certainly stop a lot of it.</p><p> </p><p>Right. And the more defined you get, the more empowered your players are. I don't feel like the things I've described in 4e (skills, skill challenges, subjective DCs, and stunts) are very defined at all. They're all filtered through the GM. And while you say you think everything is, you also point out that powers are "VERY nailed down." And the closer you get to that side of the park, the more power the players possess. I find skills, skill challenges, subjective DCs, and stunts on the other side of the park.</p><p></p><p>I dunno. I feel pretty happy with my stuff. And it has rules for a lot of things D&D doesn't try (outside of skill challenges for some of these): navigation and long term travel, running nations (with things like economy, loyalty, population density, land benefits, materials to be produced, etc.), running organizations, running businesses, running cities, random events for nations/cities/organizations and their mechanical effects (d100), changing weather, two levels of mass combat rules, sieges, how far you can throw things, feats of strength, effects of alcohol, effects of drugs, gambling, torture, magical land, character personality traits, assessing DCs, predicting actions, a life course, background charts, mechanical effects for all objects, the economy and pricing, an in-depth crafting system, inventions, new magical effects (like imbuing magic into land or things like protection on objects instead of people), tiring yourself to get a bonus on a Strength check, fame, calling in favors, titles, reputations, respect from the people, respect from organizations, rank in the military, rank as a noble or as a member of royalty, relationships with NPCs, societal status, national traits, societal traits, regional traits, stunts, training, earning experience in a time skip, working, solving riddles or puzzles, advanced mathematics, controlling emotions, feigning death, making jury-rigged objects, mimicking sound, ingratiating yourself to someone over substantial time, interpreting, setting moods, forging objects, breeding animals, base animal temperaments and how to change them, training animals to gain experience, autopsies, identify details from a wound, reduce or negate penalties through the mundane Heal skill on a broad level, resuscitating dead creatures, attracting attention, beating others while avoiding marks, bullying someone over time, research, commanding armies, inspiring troops on a broad level, spreading rumors, making a deal with someone, mundanely fascinating a crowd with a performance, uplifting the spirits of traveling companions over long distances, professions that cover broad areas (such as just the Blacksmith or Ranger skill), cold reading, counseling, figuring out what someone values, rules on gathering food in various terrains/seasons/temperatures, forming shield walls, and probably more.</p><p></p><p>And then there's the combat stuff I added: appendage loss, bleeding, other maimings (eye, nose, ears, etc.), called shots, combat styles, maneuvers, technique points, defense bonus to AC, various combat maneuvers (like repositioning people), taking people hostage, holding back damage, extra damage for beating a DC, hitting people that attack you, grappling maneuvers, riding maneuvers, knocking people unconscious on surprise, pressure point attacks, combat stunts, changing your damage type, gaining combat feats you can swap out quickly, mundanely reducing penalties to attacks, hitting someone quietly, mortally wounding enemies, skull fractures, broken bones, etc.</p><p></p><p>All told, my book weighs in at about 320 pages. And that includes rules for all the standard stuff (making magic items, making monsters, etc.). So, is it possible? Well, to my satisfaction, yes.</p><p></p><p>Why would things not be laid back at my table? Out of the players that I run my RPG for, I've known them for 13 years, 15 years, 15 years, and 29 years (and I'm 29!). We're all very close friends, and very relaxed.</p><p></p><p>I just like to give them the power and options. It's more transparent and player-empowering for them, and less work for me. Win-win, as far as my playstyle preference is concerned <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JamesonCourage, post: 6566030, member: 6668292"] Well, it ate my reply to you, and I'm not going to write it all up again. The main points: [B](1)[/B] I like details, and it doesn't have to be mundane exploration tracking. One of the PCs in my long-running 3.X game lost both his eyes, and if he hadn't been blinded in our fourth session, things would have been massively different. So that's why I like details like that. [B](2)[/B] Empowering players comes in when you take power away from the GM and give it to the players. In my system, the players have the capability to determine the DC of a check, and find ways to hit that DC, forcing events to happen. So they can determine that someone is very hard to convince, find out why, and find ways around it. This is all mechanically. And that takes power from the GM and gives it to the players, which is what I would describe as player empowerment. [B](3)[/B] I don't think player empowerment usually avoids GMs that want to railroad. But it can certainly stop a lot of it. Right. And the more defined you get, the more empowered your players are. I don't feel like the things I've described in 4e (skills, skill challenges, subjective DCs, and stunts) are very defined at all. They're all filtered through the GM. And while you say you think everything is, you also point out that powers are "VERY nailed down." And the closer you get to that side of the park, the more power the players possess. I find skills, skill challenges, subjective DCs, and stunts on the other side of the park. I dunno. I feel pretty happy with my stuff. And it has rules for a lot of things D&D doesn't try (outside of skill challenges for some of these): navigation and long term travel, running nations (with things like economy, loyalty, population density, land benefits, materials to be produced, etc.), running organizations, running businesses, running cities, random events for nations/cities/organizations and their mechanical effects (d100), changing weather, two levels of mass combat rules, sieges, how far you can throw things, feats of strength, effects of alcohol, effects of drugs, gambling, torture, magical land, character personality traits, assessing DCs, predicting actions, a life course, background charts, mechanical effects for all objects, the economy and pricing, an in-depth crafting system, inventions, new magical effects (like imbuing magic into land or things like protection on objects instead of people), tiring yourself to get a bonus on a Strength check, fame, calling in favors, titles, reputations, respect from the people, respect from organizations, rank in the military, rank as a noble or as a member of royalty, relationships with NPCs, societal status, national traits, societal traits, regional traits, stunts, training, earning experience in a time skip, working, solving riddles or puzzles, advanced mathematics, controlling emotions, feigning death, making jury-rigged objects, mimicking sound, ingratiating yourself to someone over substantial time, interpreting, setting moods, forging objects, breeding animals, base animal temperaments and how to change them, training animals to gain experience, autopsies, identify details from a wound, reduce or negate penalties through the mundane Heal skill on a broad level, resuscitating dead creatures, attracting attention, beating others while avoiding marks, bullying someone over time, research, commanding armies, inspiring troops on a broad level, spreading rumors, making a deal with someone, mundanely fascinating a crowd with a performance, uplifting the spirits of traveling companions over long distances, professions that cover broad areas (such as just the Blacksmith or Ranger skill), cold reading, counseling, figuring out what someone values, rules on gathering food in various terrains/seasons/temperatures, forming shield walls, and probably more. And then there's the combat stuff I added: appendage loss, bleeding, other maimings (eye, nose, ears, etc.), called shots, combat styles, maneuvers, technique points, defense bonus to AC, various combat maneuvers (like repositioning people), taking people hostage, holding back damage, extra damage for beating a DC, hitting people that attack you, grappling maneuvers, riding maneuvers, knocking people unconscious on surprise, pressure point attacks, combat stunts, changing your damage type, gaining combat feats you can swap out quickly, mundanely reducing penalties to attacks, hitting someone quietly, mortally wounding enemies, skull fractures, broken bones, etc. All told, my book weighs in at about 320 pages. And that includes rules for all the standard stuff (making magic items, making monsters, etc.). So, is it possible? Well, to my satisfaction, yes. Why would things not be laid back at my table? Out of the players that I run my RPG for, I've known them for 13 years, 15 years, 15 years, and 29 years (and I'm 29!). We're all very close friends, and very relaxed. I just like to give them the power and options. It's more transparent and player-empowering for them, and less work for me. Win-win, as far as my playstyle preference is concerned :) [/QUOTE]
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