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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6567119" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>I'm just realistic about what is humanly possible. Economists in the real world have very close to no clue how economies actually work. Ecologists have only the vaguest knowledge of how ecologies actually work. Beyond that, even if they have good models for those things, the devil is in the details. The reason there's forest over here and not over there might for instance be due to some small difference in soil chemistry, which is in turn due to some geophysical considerations, etc. Likewise with cultures, languages, etc. What makes this even more true is that we're talking about fantasy worlds that work on unknown and largely undefined principles. Nobody can make a logically consistent world, we're human beings, not gods.</p><p></p><p>So, what is it we REALLY do, we make a bunch of setting material that describes a world much like the one we're familiar with, except it has magic spells, dragons, elves, etc added to it. Maybe we salt it with some weird cultural details usually pilfered from popular descriptions of remote or ancient cultures, and we sprinkle in some made-up history, social structures, etc, all designed to serve the purpose of making an interesting adventure location. None of it is really consistent, if you could assemble it into an actual world using some advanced technology or a huge computer could run it all then undoubtedly it would implode in some completely weird way on day 2. Half the inhabitants would starve because nobody designed a working agricultural infrastructure, or dragons would eat all the peasants, or whatever, and then etc etc etc.</p><p></p><p>These worlds are exactly as real as the dressing people put on a set to do a play. They are suggestive, and where the action demands it they play a role in the story, but they don't have a life of their own. Nobody has to actually walk the streets of Fallcrest or feed its people, etc. except when the DM decides that would make an interesting addition to the story. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I think the problem is you're not really trying to grasp the true extent of complexity and interaction between the parts of a real world. Your issue with eladrin fey step -not what I was referring to when I mentioned teleport, but anyway- is a tiny nit. How do the eladrin FEED THEMSELVES, why doesn't everyone just grow components and use them to create food with a ritual? Why does it matter if eladrin cannot be put in jail, what are the consequences? Nobody can answer these things with any certainty.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, I think setting designers KNOW they cannot even hope to achieve 1 billionth of the work it would require to make a consistent sustainable world design if they spent 1000 lifetimes at it! And if they did, who would really find it interesting? People don't care about that stuff and couldn't absorb it or comprehend it if they did care. What they want and need is a set, a place that lets them simply depict the actions of a group of heroes (or whatever) that includes interesting descriptions of the things that the protagonists interact with. Something that is evocative and deep enough to allow you to imagine it in your mind, but small and tractable and easy enough to arrange and rearrange as the participants needs change.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6567119, member: 82106"] I'm just realistic about what is humanly possible. Economists in the real world have very close to no clue how economies actually work. Ecologists have only the vaguest knowledge of how ecologies actually work. Beyond that, even if they have good models for those things, the devil is in the details. The reason there's forest over here and not over there might for instance be due to some small difference in soil chemistry, which is in turn due to some geophysical considerations, etc. Likewise with cultures, languages, etc. What makes this even more true is that we're talking about fantasy worlds that work on unknown and largely undefined principles. Nobody can make a logically consistent world, we're human beings, not gods. So, what is it we REALLY do, we make a bunch of setting material that describes a world much like the one we're familiar with, except it has magic spells, dragons, elves, etc added to it. Maybe we salt it with some weird cultural details usually pilfered from popular descriptions of remote or ancient cultures, and we sprinkle in some made-up history, social structures, etc, all designed to serve the purpose of making an interesting adventure location. None of it is really consistent, if you could assemble it into an actual world using some advanced technology or a huge computer could run it all then undoubtedly it would implode in some completely weird way on day 2. Half the inhabitants would starve because nobody designed a working agricultural infrastructure, or dragons would eat all the peasants, or whatever, and then etc etc etc. These worlds are exactly as real as the dressing people put on a set to do a play. They are suggestive, and where the action demands it they play a role in the story, but they don't have a life of their own. Nobody has to actually walk the streets of Fallcrest or feed its people, etc. except when the DM decides that would make an interesting addition to the story. I think the problem is you're not really trying to grasp the true extent of complexity and interaction between the parts of a real world. Your issue with eladrin fey step -not what I was referring to when I mentioned teleport, but anyway- is a tiny nit. How do the eladrin FEED THEMSELVES, why doesn't everyone just grow components and use them to create food with a ritual? Why does it matter if eladrin cannot be put in jail, what are the consequences? Nobody can answer these things with any certainty. No, I think setting designers KNOW they cannot even hope to achieve 1 billionth of the work it would require to make a consistent sustainable world design if they spent 1000 lifetimes at it! And if they did, who would really find it interesting? People don't care about that stuff and couldn't absorb it or comprehend it if they did care. What they want and need is a set, a place that lets them simply depict the actions of a group of heroes (or whatever) that includes interesting descriptions of the things that the protagonists interact with. Something that is evocative and deep enough to allow you to imagine it in your mind, but small and tractable and easy enough to arrange and rearrange as the participants needs change. [/QUOTE]
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